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  1. #1
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    Default Switch Enclosure- Switch Position Identification.

    I have been making an enclosure for a pair of switches that will provide switching for two VFDs on the Hercus tool and cutter grinder. Because the VFDs will be concealed within the machine's base, the enclosure will incorporate a pair of green neon panel lamps to indicate "power on". Those lamps are somewhere between England and Perth at the moment and I have shown a pair of red lamps installed temporarily below.

    The enclosure and its fascia panel will be painted a greenish colour approximating the green Hercus used. The aluminium is marine grade and even if I was prepared to root around with anodising I'm pretty sure the colour wouldn't match Hercus' anodised panel. The panel on my enclosure is set back from the original when mounted by about 4mm.

    I need to identify the off and (maybe?) on switch positions. While I do have a wonderful Gravograph pantograph I don't have fonts that match those used on the machine's switchpate and more importantly, I have invested too much time in my panel to stuff it up with some experimental engraving. :roll:

    So given all that, my intention is to use coloured plugs as identifiers of stop and go. After wasting time looking for cheap and appropriately coloured plastic screwdrivers, paintbrush handles and drawing pins at Officeworks, Bunnings and the like, I looked again at the 30 year old box of Duplo in the shed. And realised I had possibly found an answer. The male plug on Duplo is 9.5mm in diameter and parallel. I turned the flat section down to 10mm and a trial in some aluminium scrap established that a hole drilled with a U gauge bit (.368" ) provides a press in fit.

    I would have like something a bit more restrained size wise but Lego is good for a piddly plug not much more than 3mm in diameter so I think I'm stuck with 10mm.

    If I was to make the enclosure again I would locate the green lamps where the green buttons are in my pretend setup below and have only the red plugs for stop.

    Do I need the green plugs to show the on position given that the lamps should be on when the switch is turned on. I'm trying not to make the thing look like a Christmas tree or a traffic light!

    BT
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  2. #2
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    Default

    It's a novel approach Bob - I don't think I've ever seen Duplo used on a machine tool before.

    My personal view is that both positions need to be indicated, even if just a 1 and a 0 to indicate on and off. I have a plain sanserif font for my engraver if you want to borrow the masters to put the words there. If I were going the coloured plug route I'd have the green as well but probably profile them to look a little like the lamps. A possible variation on your suggestion is the green lamp for the go position, a red plug for stop and cover the existing lamp hole with an engraved plastic name plate.

    Michael

  3. #3
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    The whole red/green off/on thing can get pretty serious.

    Just how serious is exemplified at Chernobyl where a confusion between red/green off/on led to certain safety systems not being on when they should have been which contributed significantly to the seriousness of the outcome.

    Some folks say you cannot have too much information but others say it can clutter the information a user really needs, especially in time of emergencies.

    Because of this I agree with Michael's suggestion of a Green neon for on and red plug for off.

    I personally prefer orange for on because that at least signifies "caution" although I haven't held true to that in all cases. Also the recent batch of orange LEDs I purchased look more red than orange.


    BTW the whole thing looks nice and tidy.

  4. #4
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    Hi Bob,

    That switch enclosure looks pretty slick...

    This might be too late for your design, but what about a latching illuminated switch.

    I like these ones, I've used them a few times, we used them for start stop on the Deckel FP2LB. You get a nice tactile feel and the led ring illumination confirmation is nice.



    Other than that, I'd look for switches that indicate on/off status on the switch itself.


    Ray

    PS.. Digikey Link PV6F240SS-341 E-Switch | Switches | DigiKey

  5. #5
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    Michael, Bob and Ray,

    Thank you for your input and suggestions. The existing lamp holes could be plugged and the neons repositioned to take the place of the green plugs but I might run into the fixings used to fasten the enclosure to the Hercus box. The easiest solution is to leave the lamps where they will be and go the cluttered look.

    The panel has been counterbored and notched to suit the Allen-Bradley switches and I've bought two additional A-B push button switches to replace the single Siemens off switch on the Hercus board so I'll stick with A-B.

    Strangely, the Federal main switch on the grinder indicates green for stop and red for go. Not just the Russians who were confused.

    BT

  6. #6
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    I prefer the words. That way there is no confusion. I have a Brother Labler that can do almost any colour foreground and background and pretty much any font. It can be driven via a computer. Black on clear tape is available. I plan on doing my lathe with black on white eventually. Also great to identify the switches. What would gold on purple look like?

    Dean

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Strangely, the Federal main switch on the grinder indicates green for stop and red for go. Not just the Russians who were confused.

    BT
    Not so strange, that's the norm for circuit breakers etc. red == powered.

    Ray

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Not so strange, that's the norm for circuit breakers etc. red == powered.

    Ray
    And I was just looking at the HPM GPO in the kitchen while washing up. Red for on.

  9. #9
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    Mechanical services: red generally indicates a fault condition, green is on (running...or at least should be).

    there in nothing to indicate its (the mechanical item) off.

  10. #10
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    Default Looking like a box of Smarties.

    Works well enough. Hercus had it wired so that hitting the off button switched both the grinding spindle motor and workhead simultaneously. I like the idea of being able to switch the motors independently. The odd switches will be replaced with a matching pair. I will cover the LIGHT engraving.

    BT


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  11. #11
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    Nice work as always Bob.
    The two stop buttons are probably different because one is an E-stop and the other just kills the lights. (One you need to be able to hit with anything while being dragged into the machine, while the other you don't want to hit accidentally as that may create a safety issue.)

    Michael

  12. #12
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    Thank you Michael.

    There was never a light switch on this grinder. If one was fitted I imagine it was a push on /push off switch. I have simply removed the blanking off plug and installed a random momentary stop switch. The original switches (and my random) operate only the VFDs remote terminal switching via a pair of magnetic contactors. The new rotary switches turn the VFDs on and off.

    An E-stop would have to be a separate entity that cut the power to the VFDs.

    Bob.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Works well enough. Hercus had it wired so that hitting the off button switched both the grinding spindle motor and workhead simultaneously. I like the idea of being able to switch the motors independently. The odd switches will be replaced with a matching pair. I will cover the LIGHT engraving.

    BT
    Hi BT,

    Looks neat and tidy, I think the indicator lamps make it.

    I take it that the speed control is from the drive front panel?


    Ray

    PS What function do the upper two buttons now perform?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Hi BT,

    Looks neat and tidy, I think the indicator lamps make it.

    I take it that the speed control is from the drive front panel?


    Ray

    PS What function do the upper two buttons now perform?
    Hello Ray,

    The original Hercus momentary switches switch the VFD output. ( Function F10 on the Teco FM50 - Terminal control )
    My plan (?) was a set and forget thing. The VFDs would be set at 50 Hz and buried inside the grinder's base. Same way I use the 13's FM50. To change spindle speeds on the mill I use the mill's variateur, the VFD output stays put.

    Variable speed for the workhead might be advantageous, kneeling on the floor to achieve it wouldn't be. The grinder at present sits in the middle of the shed. If I moved the seldom used second lathe, the grinder could reside against the wall and the VFDs could be wall mounted in the yet unused clear doored enclosure I had planned to use for the 13's three VFDs. Just means more work.

    If a VFD is set at 50 Hertz will it remain there?

    BT

  15. #15
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    On my, soon to be commissioned, Kent grinder I have a 4-position switch next to the VFD programmed 50-55-60-66 Hz.
    The identical machine was sold in the US with 60 Hz supply, and 10% higher speed is allowed in the wheel standards.

    The subject of lamp colours reminds me of the time I engineered and installed a moderately sized 415 Vac distribution board.
    I gave the electrician a paper bag of lamp lenses and instructed him to simply take a lens out at random and fit it at random.
    At the inevitable 'heated' discussion in the site hut the next morning, I tabled a list of all the lamps and requested the customer to fill in the colour for each lamp - problem solved.

    I had learned through several projects that colour is one of those subjects where everyone has an opinion, all different.

    John

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