Thread: Guide for newcomers about metals and metal types

Hi all

Given some of our newer members have not yet gained the experience, knowledge or background some of us do, I am thinking of a metals guide in the form of a sticky to help the new fellers in gaining a better understanding about the materials (metals) we desire to work with.

I am thinking across the general run of common engineering metals ferrous and non ferrous,structural fabrication and construction , and engineering eg: machinists .

We can list the material trade name - its industry code,its application and what ever else may be needed to improve materials understanding of someone new to metal working.

Perhaps a couple of us could collaborate and write a sticky on all metal types for guidance of those new to the metalwork scene.

I am quite happy to start it and then send it on to our experienced forumites to have a look at ,so I don't make any blues in or out of my area. I have a good idea generally but have been known to make mistakes.

Comments ,other ideas , please!

Grahame

Sounds like a fantastic idea. Thanks Graham, I do have a listing of different grades of metal from ASSAB I think it was. It was put up by one of the members on here, I think it would be a good starting point.
Regards
Kryn

That sounds a good idea Grahame, and any useful references might be a useful addition too, especially if they are readily downloadable or available either free or at low cost. One very useful reference I have, which sadly is neither free nor cheap in Australia is Pat Rapps "Engineers Black Book". Surprisingly in America it costs US$23.00 ish, while here it is around AU$ 45-50. Another really excellent reference would be Machinerys Handbook, and secondhand copies are readily available from Amazon and eBay, especially Yank eBay, and in some respects the older the copy the more relevant to the home enthusiast, because most home enthusiasts don't have the latest most up to date machines and tools. Copies dating from the 1890s will have loads of useful info for machining novices, and even copies from the 1970s or 80s will only be a few $$s, but have pretty well everything anyone would need to know in the engineering fields.

Hi Grahame
great idea. I'll try and compile a list of the more older ones like naval brass, gunmetal, white metal etc.
i have a great book here somewhere that explains their composition.

Phil

A fantastic idea Grahame.

Dean

As an novice on metals, I think its a great idea too. I got a load of expensive tool steels off ebay from a toolmaker and he told me about them but of course i forgot. I think he was really disapointed it was going to someone who knew nothing and he tried to give me a crash course. I've kept most of them until I get an important use, but thats where i am lost. He told me some of these cost $80 a kg and that was 20~30 years ago.
I've got stuff like k110 and something called Orbit which I haven't been able to find. its labelled as super tough chipper grade.
I can look up stuff like K110 and it says uses are dies etc (I'm guessing, its a while since i looked) but it would be great if some of you experts could make personal comments on what to use these things for. Even if its just your own hobbies like pins for guns, that type of thing. I come across offcuts of unusual steels all the time at the scrappie but never know how rare or exotic they are. i could easily end up wasting something valuable on an application where 4140 would do.
E.G. I was told the K110 could reach 90+ rockwell (that's form memory, I could be well off - I think I kept notes on that if anyone wanted to know what he said) if it was oven baked at such and such for so long per inch, but the toolmaker guy had successfully flame hardened it to 84 by just heating it cherry red then quenching in oil, then tempering back to straw coloured. I kept some notes but I wish I had listened better. I'm sure the experts would find just the hard facts useful in a list. I suppose what i'm asking is if you could put in comments for idiots and not just repeat the specs from the materials sheet, then that would help a lot of us (idiots) out too.

Yes ...good idea

Excellent idea Grahame - thanks for thinking of us noobs.

I'd share soscity's comments... An "idiots guide" approach would be fantastic so that we can actually apply the information to our projects.



Thx
Jon

Thanks for the kind comments fellers,

My first rush of excrement to the brain has come up with a suggested template .

The data itself is easy enough to find but setting it all up in a manner which is easy to navigate is another matter.


Ok! it is a suggested method not locked in stone .

I chose silver steel as it is current topic and beyond that I chose O1 only as my thinking is that the Poms only seem to mention O1- AKA silver steels- but the Americans seem to lump O1, A1, and W1 together and call it Drill Rod. Grounds for possible confusion there-so they are separate!

They are different chemical make ups- so bear with me and I'll make them all individual sheets.

Have a look at the sample template and have your say- I think it may well be an Abe Lincoln job here ( can't please all of the people ,all of the time ) but we shall see.

The attachment is in MS Word.If it does not load , I'll C & P . stand By!

Grahame

Hi Grahame

Excellent idea to support us hobby enthusiasts /beginners. You have my support and help if required but I am unsure of exactly how much I can contribute

If the idea is for others to contribute who will moderate to check for errors.

I had a peek at your first template and have a couple of suggestions if I may.

Firstly the Two Fonts you chose are not available in the " Mac world " perhaps fonts common to both will make formatting more consistent.

Secondly Silver Steel has a lot of properties - like it is commonly available in accurately ground sizes which are properties useful to hobbyists. I suppose that what I am trying to convey is that properties like chemical composition etc can easily be googled but hobbyist uses often do no show up in such searches which often only display industrial uses
Ron

For a quick reference of general steel types and uses go to either Edcon or Steel Store and down load there info sheets.

For the back yard bloke this information should be fine, from my experience most people if they are buying from a supplier and NOT scrap yard just want to know what type of material for the job they are doing, and a lot of back yard guys don't even know what they should be using for a particular application in the 1st place.

Looks good Grahame,

My suggestions are

- use Internationally accepted chemical symbols for the elements otherwise it gets confusing.
see http://www.iupac.org/fileadmin/user_...ble-1May13.pdf

- since we are often visited by WWorkers that where possible WW applications, e.g. O1 for woodwork blades

- where possible something about the general properties of the material, e.g. can/cannot be hardened by heat treatment, Resistance to abrasion,Tensile strength, resistance to corrosion, weldability etc.

For some materials like Al grades a table might be suitable - even just pointing to existing resources on the web would be useful

Just suggestions.

Cheers

Top idea, however I can't read it.

Ted

Good idea Gra, I'm still finding it hard to tell the difference between putty and high tensile steel when buying taps.

Ken

Can I can hijack this for a second? Anyway, this might help decide if anything can be done in your reference material for someone ignorant like me, or is it best to just keep the reference completely factual.
i have 40kg of tool steel, eg SC25, k110, and Orbit. The advert ran
HIGH WEAR GRADE -
SUITABLE FOR HEAVY BLANKING / PRECISION FORMING OR PIERCING OPERATIONS
VACUUM BATH HARDING TO 58 - 61 ROCKWELL " C "
OR WILL FLAME / FURNACE HARDEN AND OIL QUENCH TO ABOUT 56- 59 RC

When I picked it up he told me he had got a high figure hardness with just heating to cherry red, etc, but obviously my memory is no good so there's no point in me saying what, since I was thinking 90 etc!
OK, I'm never going to do any heavy blanking or piercing operations, and while I'd like to dream, I doubt I'll be doing any precision forming either.
I think I read that SC25 and k110 looks the same in spec but what do I use them for or are they completely interchangeable? I couldn't find anything on Orbit at all. Would any of this be good to make a knife blade with for example? Is it good for making a tap or a die or is it overkill? The only thing I used so far was a small bit of k110 which I made into a part of a 4 jaw lathe chuck. It just holds the threaded part that you move the jaw with. It machined very nicely and I did my best with precision, and got the same interference fit as the original broken bit. I still don't have a mill so its not finished or hardened yet (after 3 years, I finally made a milling attachment and still hoping to find the money for a mill!), but was this a waste of K110? I read it is good at keeping its tolerance after you heat treat it so i thought it would be good application since i can't do any precision grinding to size. The specs all say stuff like in his advert which i don't even know what that means, but what could I use it for, or is it a complete waste for someone like me?

If you are wondering why I bought it, I got it for less than new black steel costs per kg, plus it was in big heavy bits I couldn't see me getting because of minimum lengths etc.