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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Default Workshop LED lighting

    I am in the process of installing led lighting for the shed and though my experience may help others decide which may to go or perhaps to not go.

    I ordered a pack of 10 90cm 14 watt T8 tube lights from Aliexpress, total cost $127. Specs are advertised as

    72 Epistar leds SMD3528
    Input voltage 90-260 vac
    Cool white

    I admit I didn't do a lot of research and am unsure if Epistar are good or bad, time will tell.

    The lights consist a metal base very similar to a regular fluro base, (it is however very much more flimsy) a couple of spring clips to hold the base and the tube light itself which also looks like a regular fluro 90cm long with 2 pins at each end. The power connector is a sony type 2 pin connector frequently found on radios and some TV's. Mounting the lights is simplicity itself a single philips head tek screw secures each clip about 50-60cm apart the metal base clips in and the tube is fitted as you would a fluro tube. I ordered a pack of 10 mini junction boxes from the 'BAY one for each tube to mount close to the power end of the base as the power connector leads are quite short at around 7.5 cm long.

    It's here that I ran into speed hump, the power connector wires are exceedingly flimsy, once the insulation is stripped back the copper wires look like 3 or 4 strands of 10 thou thick wire, not so easy to connect to a 1mm lighting cable even with a junction box. I connected the power leads to the 1mm cable in the junction box, tested by tugging slightly, the connection failed each time, I could get them to stay put by clamping the plastic insulation but wasn't happy that a good connection had been made so in the end I resorted to soldering and used the junction box as an anchor point.

    The connecting wires carry 240v and the insulation looks awfully thin and is definately not double insulated, I kept the leads as short as possible to keep these leads away from the metal roof purlins.

    My shed is 6m x 4.7m and the plan was to have 4 lights each side (2 on each purlin) and another two in the middle to give a total of 3 circuits, having just finished one side I doubt that I will need the middle lights, I'm quite impressed with the amount of light even for my feeble eyes.

    I'm not sure where the LED power supply is located I think it is in the tube itself

    I might add that one of the bases I received was bent as they are very flimsy, I attempted to straighten it and only succeeded in bending back the other way and making it worse. I did end up getting it sort of straight in the end. I also found that a lot of hash is generated at the lower end of the FM band, I can no longer tune to 93.7 and am now stuck with either the commercial stations or Triple J.


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Default

    Thanks for letting us know. I won't be getting those lights, cos I like to listen to a FM station that is very low in the spectrum.
    Kryn

  3. #3
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by familyguy View Post
    It's here that I ran into speed hump, the power connector wires are exceedingly flimsy, once the insulation is stripped back the copper wires look like 3 or 4 strands of 10 thou thick wire, not so easy to connect to a 1mm lighting cable even with a junction box. I connected the power leads to the 1mm cable in the junction box, tested by tugging slightly, the connection failed each time, I could get them to stay put by clamping the plastic insulation but wasn't happy that a good connection had been made so in the end I resorted to soldering and used the junction box as an anchor point.
    These wires should be capped at the end with something called a bootlace connector which easily crimps to the wire and is substantial enough for the junction box to grab hold of.

    The connecting wires carry 240v and the insulation looks awfully thin and is definately not double insulated, I kept the leads as short as possible to keep these leads away from the metal roof purlins.
    The current draw is minimal but it might be worth running a Megger over them to see how well they cope with 240V

    I'm not sure where the LED power supply is located I think it is in the tube itself
    That's right the tube itself has a tiny adapter to reduce and rectify the power.

    I might add that one of the bases I received was bent as they are very flimsy, I attempted to straighten it and only succeeded in bending back the other way and making it worse. I did end up getting it sort of straight in the end. I also found that a lot of hash is generated at the lower end of the FM band, I can no longer tune to 93.7 and am now stuck with either the commercial stations or Triple J.
    Try a digital radio?


    BTW if you already have fluoro lamps but want to convert to LEDs10X 25X AEG LED T8 Light tube fluorescent replacement 18W 120cm COOL FROST on eBay from Vic costs $100 including postage


  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Sol Terra Australis Canberra
    Age
    54
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    8

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    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10X-25X-A...-/291270683197

    And a general discussion on these tubes: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=193196

    Been thinking about them for a while, but I was wondering about the ballasts, which I'm keen to remove.
    Fancy firewood, sawdust creator and frequent bleeder.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2014
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    The current draw is minimal but it might be worth running a Megger over them to see how well they cope with 240
    I would not recommend a megger on anything electronic.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearo View Post
    I would not recommend a megger on anything electronic.
    I think Bob thought that removing the tubes (which contain the only electronics) would be common sense. Maybe he was wrong....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  7. #7
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    I think Bob thought that removing the tubes (which contain the only electronics) would be common sense. Maybe he was wrong....
    \Yeah - just the wiring.

  8. #8
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    Here are some pics of the base, when I said flimsy I may have been a bit unkind as it is certainly rigid enough for the purpose intended, there is no need to support a heavy metal ballast + plastic cover, metal is however quite thin and the complete fitting weighs in at only 100 grams. Power is routed to each end of the base.

    I was wrong in my estimate of the wire thickness for the power connector, there are about 9 wires .003 or 3 thou thick. for those of you that use metrics that is .076mm less than 1/10 of a millimeter no wonder I had trouble getting the wire to clamp at the junction box.

    P5030002.JPGP5030003.jpgP5030004.jpgP5030005.JPGP5030007.JPG
    These things have not deterred me however cost wise I think is good as the shed is new with no lighting installed to retro fit led tubes to, and buying regular fluro type bases and tubes separately was out of my price range. Only time will tell if the Chinese electronics last at all, the Aliexpress seller goes to a bit of trouble to point out that his led tubes have proper switchmode power supplies which include isolation transformers.

    My megger and clamp meter are still packed away and once the lighting is done I can dig them out and check the power connector insulation, and also power consumption.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Riddells Creek, Vic.
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    I picked up 18 LED tubes from AEG Electrical yesterday and started fitting them into one of the 9 light fittings in the shed tonight. The results so far are looking very promising with the power dropping from 180 watts with the original fluoro's to 36 watts with the LED's (starters removed)

    After removing the magnetic ballasts from the circuit the power reading dropped to 33 watts. I have only managed to complete one light so far because it is quite time consuming.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
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    I just ordered 10 of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/High-qual...item56781c3bef I bought warm white 20W 4' versions. Not for my own use. I will be sacrificing one to make sure its up to my standards. Will post up the internal pics when the lights arrive.

  11. #11
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    Dec 2007
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    Adelaide
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    I finally found my Fluke 87 and current clamp, with all lights on ( a total of 8) current draw is 775 mA (0.775 Amps) or 96.8 mA per tube, power caclulates at 186Watts or 23 watts per tube, I don't have a power meter, power factor meter and I'm not about to measure mains waveforms with my CRO so the simple current draw is the only test I can do.

    If you are thinking that this does not sound right as the tubes are meant to be 14W each I'm thinking the same, perhaps the tubes have a poor power factor, although info I have from doing a bit net surfing does not support this.

    I'm not real concerned though, the lighting is great and I've arranged it in two independent switched banks depending on which bench I'm at and will be much cheaper to run than fluros and hopefully last much longer.

    I did check the power input cable insulation on one of the tubes that I have left, with 1Kv across the two wires resistance was in 100's of megohms I don't think there will be any problems long term.

  12. #12
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    May 2012
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    Sol Terra Australis Canberra
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    Default AEG LED lights

    Un-B-leivable!!!

    Ordered 10 and replaced the 6 I have here with these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/291270683197

    Removed starter and just fitted. HOLY COW! What a difference.

    Previously there were 6 of the best tri-phosphor lamps I could buy and expensive starters. These new ones are *utterly* silent and instant on. Very bright... 6500k and its like daylight in here now.

    Here are two photos to prove it!!!

    Same standing place, same camera, No flash (or camera-magic blah blah blah), no photoshoping or auto-fixing via software.

    No more bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................... 10 for $100. BARGAIN! (Ill be going to the Revolve (tip recycle mob) and getting two more double battens sans ballasts to fit the remaining 4....)

    BEFORE and AFTER....
    DSC00138 (1024x685).jpg DSC00152 (1024x685).jpg
    Fancy firewood, sawdust creator and frequent bleeder.

  13. #13
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evanism View Post
    Un-B-leivable!!!

    Ordered 10 and replaced the 6 I have here with these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/291270683197

    Removed starter and just fitted. HOLY COW! What a difference.

    Previously there were 6 of the best tri-phosphor lamps I could buy and expensive starters. These new ones are *utterly* silent and instant on. Very bright... 6500k and its like daylight in here now.

    Here are two photos to prove it!!!

    Same standing place, same camera, No flash (or camera-magic blah blah blah), no photoshoping or auto-fixing via software.
    I assume the camera was set to fully manual (i.e. a fixed shutter/aperture/ISO).
    If so it would be worth knowing what they were.

  14. #14
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    Hi Bob,

    It was set to "don't use flash" with the switch on top. I didn't want the flash noodling my results and it was only for my own before/after so I could see the difference .... Its a Sony Alpha 300 - not too fancy now, but it cost a kidney new.

    First pic - F/3.5, 1/30 exposure with 160 ISO... 18mm focal and 3.61 aperture.
    Second pic - F/4, 1/40 exposure with 400 ISO... 22mm focal and 4 aperture.

    I really don't care too much about the really fine details. I don't comprehend photography enough to use them with any skill.

    Although, the camera did record that the first photo had an apparent brightness of 3.5 for the first and 2.25 for the second. (I dont know what it means, but I'd dare say that 1 is the sun and 100 is a dark cave)

    It wasn't my intention to provide a scientific quantification of the difference... other than my HOLY COW BATMAN and now two guests (frequent visitors to my studio) who have visited this arvo and both exclaiming the unbelievable difference.... without my saying a thing.

    The replaced fluoros are/were Crompton Cool White V03 tri-phosphor jobbies bought specially from Turks Electrical here. I bought them as they were (in their opinion) "the best" and were a very big leap over the generics I had that came with the battens. They would be 6 months old and from what I remember they cost a bomb.

    The brightness, quietness and smoothness and clarity of the light is something to behold. I was pleased with my studio before (I work here 8 hours a day) but now I'm absolutely stoked... I would absolutely recommend them to anyone without hesitation.

    No god damned huuuuummmmmmm......
    Fancy firewood, sawdust creator and frequent bleeder.

  15. #15
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evanism View Post
    Hi Bob,

    It was set to "don't use flash" with the switch on top. I didn't want the flash noodling my results and it was only for my own before/after so I could see the difference .... Its a Sony Alpha 300 - not too fancy now, but it cost a kidney new.

    First pic - F/3.5, 1/30 exposure with 160 ISO... 18mm focal and 3.61 aperture.
    Second pic - F/4, 1/40 exposure with 400 ISO... 22mm focal and 4 aperture.
    OK camera parameters are not the same so the photos are not an accurate judge of what really happened

    It would be possible to work out and make an accurate comparison but it would be far easier if the manual settings are identical.

    Its very easy to fool the human eye especially if the colour profile is more to your personal liking.

    So maybe not HOLY BATMAN but a pleasant improvement.

    I have 13 of the same fluoros and my perception was Yeah, nice enough but not that different to some very old fluoros I got out of a skip at work.
    What impressed me more was the significantly lower current draw once the caps and ballasts had been removed.

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