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Thread: Gaskets

  1. #1
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    Default Gaskets

    Hi

    After a strip down to check things ( an absolute necessity on these Indian clones ) , I am reassembling my Indian made Lister copy stationary engine .

    They use paper gaskets each side of the block to adjust the pre load on the crankshaft tapered roller bearings . BTW the original UK built engines used bushes not TRB's .

    Anyway Id like to know if there is any alternative to going to repco and buying proper gasket paper . In this situation, weeties packets will not be good enough The Indian gaskets that were on it are pretty crappy .

    BTW the bored holes in the block, for the bearing castings, are .010" too large ( a Indian stuffup ) , I'm going to use some .005" shim stock wrapped around the casting machined shoulder as a fix . Any up/down movement of the bearing castings is a big no no , each time the heavy piston moves up/down it will drag the castings and crankshaft up/down
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  2. #2
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    Hi there,

    What's the issue with going to Repco for gasket paper? Is it too expensive or are you after a better type of material? The reason why I ask is because if it's price then have a look on ebay. Heaps of gasket material can be bought in A4 size (for example) in lots of different thicknesses. If you are trying to avoid paper for some reason (such as you want a more reliable way of preloading the bearing) then maybe you need to look for some shim stock. Maybe you need to work out the thickness required and then hunt around?

    A can of Pepsi max is pretty much spot on 0.10mm

    Probably not much help.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #3
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    Default

    The original plain bearing type Listers use paper shims on the main bearing housings to set the crank end float, I've used plain old printer paper for this and it works fine.
    With the extra clearance on the holes in the crank case, I would do a test fit of the crank and both bearing housings before shimming them.
    It's possible that a bit of free play is needed to allow the crank, crank-case and bearing housings to align themselves when the housing bolts are torqued down.
    Even if there is a bit of clearance, I wouldn't think there'd be much movement as long as everything is torqued down correctly.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  4. #4
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    Default Indian sizes

    This is another problem

    The long 3/4" studs hold everything together , the cylinder block and the head . The nominal size of the 4 studs is 3/4 " diam. with a whitworth thread at each end . Well they are .020" undersize , the problem is, the head nuts are a very loose fit on these weird undersize threads .

    I may have to machine up some undersize nuts ....
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    This is another problem

    The long 3/4" studs hold everything together , the cylinder block and the head . The nominal size of the 4 studs is 3/4 " diam. with a whitworth thread at each end . Well they are .020" undersize , the problem is, the head nuts are a very loose fit on these weird undersize threads .

    I may have to machine up some undersize nuts ....
    When I had my farm, I had a 12Kva Chi****** copy back up generator (we were totally self sufficient for electricity) After many months of not needing to run the old girl, I had an emergency at 3 or 4am (of course)
    and needed big power in a hurry.

    I wend and fired her up and no more that 30min went by and I heard a bang and we lost all power.
    Inspection showed that the studs of which you speak had snapped and the head blown off.

    I made new ones out of good quality high tensile steel and never looked back.
    I would advise making new ones out of good steel and be done with it. That way you can make your own nuts to your own tolerances, and be sure of the fact it will never happen to you..

    Matt
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  6. #6
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    Those studs could have stretched enough to thin them by 20 thou.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Stretching and thinned by .020, that's scary. Do they supply those generators with a remote start option, that way One does not to be near to the launch.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mcostello View Post
    Do they supply those generators with a remote start option, that way One does not to be near to the launch.
    Lister had a genset with an automatic start option (Start-O-Matic), useful for remote households. Turn on a light switch in the house for example, and it would signal the engine to start.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_exyuLSpk

    Anyone see the war movie, "The Railway Man", out last year? A working Lister features briefly.

    Jordan

  9. #9
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    Default Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew_g View Post
    When I had my farm, I had a 12Kva Chi****** copy back up generator (we were totally self sufficient for electricity) After many months of not needing to run the old girl, I had an emergency at 3 or 4am (of course)
    and needed big power in a hurry.

    I wend and fired her up and no more that 30min went by and I heard a bang and we lost all power.
    Inspection showed that the studs of which you speak had snapped and the head blown off.

    I made new ones out of good quality high tensile steel and never looked back.
    I would advise making new ones out of good steel and be done with it. That way you can make your own nuts to your own tolerances, and be sure of the fact it will never happen to you..

    Matt
    Yes I have to agree , making new studs will be the best thing to do . I ran a file on the Indian studs, they are rather soft

    Being a diesel, the head needs to be torqued down well.

    Looks like a trip to my steel supplier in Hallam is on the cards .

    I ran some taps though the block threads today , a lot of black sand came out

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    Lister had a genset with an automatic start option (Start-O-Matic), useful for remote households. Turn on a light switch in the house for example, and it would signal the engine to start.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_exyuLSpk

    Anyone see the war movie, "The Railway Man", out last year? A working Lister features briefly.

    Jordan
    Those Start o matic units are neat . My unit starts by the "arm strong" method .

  11. #11
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    Default STUDS

    As I am making new 3/4"studs about 18"long , threaded with BSW at each end. Would 4041 steel be OK for this purpose . The tensile strength in its non hardened state , is that strong enough ? Maybe somebody can suggest a more suitable steel ? Mike

  12. #12
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    If you are referring to 4140 then, yes, that would be perfect

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    As I am making new 3/4"studs about 18"long , threaded with BSW at each end. Would 4041 steel be OK for this purpose . The tensile strength in its non hardened state , is that strong enough ? Maybe somebody can suggest a more suitable steel ? Mike
    4140 would be ideal. You should end up with studs with similar property's to a grade 8 bolt.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Don't know if you have machined 4140 before but you have to run a bit slower than MS. Work on about 20m/min with HSS and 120m/min with carbide. I wouldn't recommend using carbon steel taps or dies either they go blunt real quick. If you have any dramas let me know and I will try to help, I machine a fair bit of it at work.

  15. #15
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    Default shims

    hi

    I decided to make up some steel shims/gaskets . There is a 1.5mm gap each side and I feel that paper is just too flimsy to adjust and hold the pre load on the TRB's .

    If I need to reduce the thickness of the steel shims to provide the correct pre load, I will try the plate glass and abrasive paper trick

    here I am boring the shim out to 5.760"

    I ran BSW taps through the block threads and a fair amount of fine black grit came out, casting sand I think .

    Mike .
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