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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    emerald
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    161

    Default Cheap high quality tooling

    Hi Guys, I have been purchasing Chinese tooling since late last year and I'm pretty impressed with the quality, not to mention the price. My last purchase was for a batch of taper shank twist drills and machine reamers. These were all HSS (600 grade I think from memory). Just to give you an idea of pricing structures, the largest drill that I ordered was a 50mm with a number 4 morse taper. This came in at US$48.00 plus about US$50.00 for the freight component. You can pretty much double the price by the time it's landed here. Just to get a comparison I rang up Sutton and asked for a price on a 50mm TSTD and they came back with AUD$677.00 plus GST. That was list price and they told me that I could probably get a discount from one of their distributors. I then thought how much would the raw material cost for a drill of this size so I rang up Bohler in Dandenong. They quoted me $152.00 plus GST for a 300mm length of 50mm dia HSS. What hope do we have here.
    Other items that I've bought direct include: ISO tips. Average, $35.00 per pack, a set of tapered pin reamers. Twelve in the set. US$68.00 plus freight. Keyway broaches and a 40 position QCTP. Everything that I've purchased so far has been great quality.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    But from where...who etc
    Not all chinese stuff is of reasonable quality

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    adelaide
    Posts
    293

    Default Get ready, here it comes.

    Get ready Gestalt, your in for it now!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,410

    Default

    Cheap yes, sure.... but how confident can you be about the "high quality" bit? I hope your drill had a more uniform heat treatment than this exquisite example:

    drillChina.jpg

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post
    The google foo of this joint never ceases to amuse me. We are surely laying out the Furphy's tonight

    Heres it in one of its forms from 2007. Can anyone ID this strange drill bit

    And that was probably a re-print. Wouldn't the truth of the matter be, you have never actually seen a drill bit like that, Chinese or otherwise?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post
    Cheap yes, sure.... but how confident can you be about the "high quality" bit? I hope your drill had a more uniform heat treatment than this exquisite example:

    drillChina.jpg
    Is not that a rare left hand /right hand combination drill?

    Gesalt,
    Please know that we all have been stung before by reasonable Chinese quality.Some stuff can be good but it is difficult to tell from a distance. By naming the vendor, others who have dealt with the same company can offer good or bad experiences with them.

    Grahame

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
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    68
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    1,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Machtool View Post
    The google foo of this joint never ceases to amuse me. We are surely laying out the Furphy's tonight

    Heres it in one of its forms from 2007. Can anyone ID this strange drill bit

    And that was probably a re-print. Wouldn't the truth of the matter be, you have never actually seen a drill bit like that, Chinese or otherwise?
    Enjoy

    untwisted drill bit.jpg


    drill.jpg


    002 Twisted.jpg

    363165.jpg

    angle-drill.jpg

    p1010453.jpg

    0001.jpg

    0002.jpg

    junk drill 001.jpg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    adelaide
    Posts
    293

    Default The 'C' word.

    Gestalt, you must be a new member: you've used the 'C' word - it's always entertaining. More bun than a marrel of bonkeys

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Gestalt, would you mind telling us your source(s) for quality Chinese tools, please?
    Despite the conversation, I too believe in Chinese quality tools and equipment. We are just not normally the customers of those manufacturers since they don't have to sell via eBay or Alibaba - just like you don't find ads from German or Swiss or Japanese or American quality manufacturers there. Because fo the language difficulties, they are hard for us to find.....
    THe crap sold through the eBay and Ali channels are obviously pictured above. Funny that, 40 years ago we used to make fun of the cheap American crap we got sold through ads in Popular Mechanics and other hobby magazines like it.....
    The Chinese learnt everything about international high-volume low-cost trade from the Americans - and the Internet allowed them to improve on it...
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tas
    Age
    66
    Posts
    30

    Default

    When I was a lad, my old man would go on about the Jap rubbish that was cheap and nasty. I suspect the Chines are following a similar upward path while here in Australia we let our onshore manufacturing capability decay.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    6,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Driftabout View Post
    When I was a lad, my old man would go on about the Jap rubbish that was cheap and nasty. I suspect the Chines are following a similar upward path while here in Australia we let our onshore manufacturing capability decay.
    Not just Australia ! It's the same here in the UK. Most of what was once considered "quality" manufacturing has all but gone. Sheffield used to be recognised worldwide for quality tooling, cutlery, instrumentation etc. When did you last purchase something "Made in England".
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    59
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    6,540

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    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post
    These two have me intrigued - looking at the flutes they have not just been twisted once but twice (the tip is still pointing in the right direction). If the tip jammed I would expect to see the twist start there. For it to start a distance up the bit make it look more like someone being creative with their CNC machine...

    Michael

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    The Chinese learnt everything about international high-volume low-cost trade from the Americans - and the Internet allowed them to improve on it...
    There is a bit of a yes but! answer to that, Joe and it is this:

    While I am not defending the Yanks , the Chinese do tend to take an item, lets say it is a lathe, as a generic pattern and manufacture it in so many different factories and at so many differing levels of quality,ranging from woeful to wonderful.

    Faced with a numerous amount of potential choices the consumer is hard pressed to discern from among those many choices which is the quality item and unfortunately makes a selection too many times based on price.

    There are quality markers that can be really difficult to identify just from an internet sales page. Standing there in the shop its easy to spot the better finish, the better casting,the accuracy of the machining, the engraved dials,the metal handles instead of plastic and so on.

    Price is only one way of denoting a quality product.

    The Chinese can and do make some wonderfully cost effective machines and tooling and I for one would welcome an easier means of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

    Grahame

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
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    68
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    These two have me intrigued - looking at the flutes they have not just been twisted once but twice (the tip is still pointing in the right direction). If the tip jammed I would expect to see the twist start there. For it to start a distance up the bit make it look more like someone being creative with their CNC machine...

    Michael
    A "normal" well made drill is softish at the cylindrical shaft end (where the chuck grips) whilst the flutes are hardened. If one tried to bend, it would break. There is very little permanent deformation, at the very most, the drill may be left with a very faint curvature. One never sees a bent or untwisted drill.

    On the pictures you mention, clearly something with the heat treatment process went wrong. The drill is soft only at the center, whilst the tip with the cutting edges and the shaft is harder. This appears to be a not so rare defect in lowest cost drills. The pictures are all collected from the net.

    I have personally not seen this in the larger diameter reduced shank and MT taper type of lowest cost drills, these seem to suffer more from broken out cutting edges, suggesting these were left too hard and brittle. And of course my drilling machines just do not have the power to twist larger diameters.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Laidley, SE Qld
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    1,038

    Default

    Gestalt, if you have come across another CTC type of business please share.

    My definition of a CTC type business is an oriental tooling seller who actually knows and cares about what he is selling.

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