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25th Apr 2014, 03:34 PM #106Most Valued Member
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Crimping
I've crimped (literally) thousands of connections and would suggest nothing more that pliers are required just depending on the type of connection used. I've seen many crimped connectors fail when I was in that industry, normally due either corrosion or mechanical failure. The environment we were using these in was very harsh marine environments, where the connections were sometimes even unintentionally fully submersed in sea water.
To crimp a connector I'd strip the wire and pre-tin it with solder. Insert the wire into the connector and crimp it, often I'd just use pliers or even large side-cutters (obviously carefully). Then solder the connector to the wire. The solder will cause the crimp to swell, hence there's no need to go crazy with expensive crimpers. Complete the connection by folding the lugs over the wire. Don't do this before soldering or it will melt the wire. The solder will wick up the wire and move the mechanical hinge point away from the connector, normally that's an advantage and will help the mechanical strength but could be a consideration in tight situations as the wire becomes quite stiff for 10-20 mm.
Industry loves crimped connections as they're extremely fast and just about any idiot to do it. However I don't like conventional crimped connections and have lost count of the number I've seen give problems. They may be quite reliable in theory, however often they're not crimped correctly. By backing the connection up with solder it seals the copper wire against corrosion, assures a good electrical connection, and provides an assured mechanical bond. It does however take much longer and a certain amount of skill in not overheating things. However I didn't ever have one connection fail, and still use this method to this day.
Pete
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25th Apr 2014, 05:04 PM #107
Hi Pete,
Welcome back... good to see you've still kicking along... I'll argue with you about crimp connectors one day, not today..
Ray
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25th Apr 2014, 08:02 PM #108Most Valued Member
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You won't be getting an argument out of me I'm afraid Ray, having made thousands of these connections that were situated in a very challenging environment I just related how I used to do crimp connections in the hope it may assist others who may not be able to afford, or otherwise justify an expensive crimping tool. If anyone wants to argue differently they can make their connections with Blu-tak for all I care. I'll add that the standard crimp connections, as might be purchased from typical retailers, aren't even approved in the aviation field for just the above reasons.
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25th Apr 2014, 09:06 PM #109
Pete, if you have read my previous post where I mentioned the arguments regarding solder and crimp terminals, on the Renovators Forum, then you should know that is the same position I had at the time. The reasons against this method came thick and fast, and extremely technical. Don't let them find out what you are doing.
Practical experience is what is most important to me, and I also have spent way too much time trying to track down dodgy terminals. I have yet to see a wire with fatigue of any kind after using solder.
If people are having issues with this then maybe they are doing it different than me. I should add that none of the arguments I have heard were very credible. I do still want some crimping pliers tho.
Dean
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25th Apr 2014, 09:17 PM #110Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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Well I just finished putting this together using my new crimpers and I have to say I am really happy with them and it has motivated me to undertake more projects like that one
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25th Apr 2014, 10:36 PM #111
Hi Dean,
Nothing wrong with soldered connections as such, if the only crimping tools you have are a pair of pliers or side-cutters and you don't own a decent crimping tool, then you don't have much choice..
Strain relief is a little more important when soldered joints are subject to vibration or flexing, but then again, strain relief is important whatever method is used.
And of course... there are many terminal types can only be properly terminated by crimping, and then only with the proper tool.
Ray
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25th Apr 2014, 11:27 PM #112Most Valued Member
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I hadn't seen your posts on that forum Dean, but looked the thread up ... and even read the linked thread.
Just to clarify from your posts in that thread, I would not advocate soldering and then crimping, there are very good reasons why this is bad practice and should be avoided. The method I described was still basically a regular crimp, but I then soldered the joint as well. It was a bullet proof way to terminate the connection and removed the possibility of a bad crimp. I find relying on the "pull test" idiotic in the extreme. In the linked thread there was a guy who used a similar process as I except with a solder pot, and like him I've had boats and ships awash/sink/storm damaged/struck by lightning/etc and didn't ever have ONE termination fail or give any issues whatsoever. EVER. In the meanwhile I repaired countless incorrectly crimped connections and/or replaced metres of cable where the corrosion had crept up the insulation and I'd have to keep chasing it back up until I found good wire. I thought I'd just pass it on, however I appreciate my experience is no substitute for the Google experts so I'll leave it there.
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26th Apr 2014, 09:41 AM #113Most Valued Member
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My electronics techs had the best gear money could buy - it was your tax dollars after all - and generally, if it was an important joint, it was soldered then had 2 layers of heat-shrink over the top. Using tinned wire as standard.
But that was a marine environment.
My purely ignorant approach is, if it's high voltage (240-415V) and inside a house/shed, I crimp. If it's low voltage, I solder. If it's likely to be exposed to salt air, I use tinned wire, solder and heat shrink. Replacing cables running through bulkheads, inside deck heads etc is not something you want to do.... in my boat I've got dedicated cable ways under the deck head just so running cable is simple(r) and future work easier.
YMMV.....
PDW
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26th Apr 2014, 10:35 AM #114Pink 10EE owner
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What is wrong with just twisting the wires together and a bit of insulating tape...
Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.
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26th Apr 2014, 11:08 AM #115.
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26th Apr 2014, 11:17 AM #1161915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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26th Apr 2014, 11:27 AM #117Distracted Member
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26th Apr 2014, 11:29 AM #118.
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My plan is to use a couple of magnetic contactors to enable the remote switching of the VFDs via the grinder's control panel's momentary on and off switches. Below are a few photos of the type of contactor I'll use. They are obviously second hand. I don't know whether the quality of the existing connections is industry standard.
Should my wires be tinned before securing them in the terminals?
In some cases three wires will be secured in a single terminal. Previously I would have twisted the wires together with pliers and clamped them in the terminal en masse. There is insufficient room to accommodate 3 forked crimped on connectors, even two are tight. A soldered clump would also present a problem.
Bob.
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26th Apr 2014, 11:49 AM #119Most Valued Member
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Hi BT,
No.......don't tin under a mechanical joint.*
If you really want to get excited just run the wire to a terminal block and loop to the other wires.
Are you sure you need the contactors anyway? Have a look in Joe's/Simons threads about using momentary switches directly to the VSD.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=183843
Stuart
* should add... if I was using fine multi strand wire I just might anyway............just coz it can make life easier......
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26th Apr 2014, 11:50 AM #120
My current practice for a number of years is to solder wires to terminals re my previous post. The mention of solder, then crimp was only made as I believe this is what started the furore on the Renovators Forum. If I remember correctly, there was a total rejection of the use of any solder, in relation to terminals by some posters. I also had an issue with using galv angle to mount tap fittings inside house walls. That also was a complete no-no. Nobody could show me why it was not suitable in my situation. The point made was along the lines that it is possible that it could cause a problem (in extreme circumstances) so don't do it. The plumber at work agreed with what they said. Completely correct was his answer. Then he laughed and said, "but you will long dead before any problem occurs". Some people have rigid beliefs that don't allow for circumstances. Inflexible people lack imagination. Imagination drives the world.
I solder wires together and use heatshrink where suitable.
Yep, saw a fair bit of that under the dash of my 175 dollar FC Holden.
The mate who bought this car off me connected positive wires by removing a fuse, putting the wire inside the holder clips and putting the fuse back in. Works best with bare wires.
I had a problem with a car engine that cut out when I was turning fairly hard to the right. After some searching, I found that the wire supplying power to the breakerless electronic ignition system I had fitted was loose enough to swing across and touch the side of the engine bay. It was partially insulated, but there was enough exposed to short out.
Dean
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