Thread: While we are all on VFD's...Vector drive recomendations.

Originally Posted by Ueee

....All i am looking for is a VFD recommendation.......
Ew

This is what I recommend:

- make a shortlist of several "Sensorless Vector Type" VFD's that you can find at a reduced price (new old stock, or lightly used, or from a dealer going broke, etc)
- look up the manufacturers website. Make sure that for the model in question, you can download for free (and without requiring a dealer login) not only the user manual, but also the installation manual and technical manual and application notes etc.
- read the user manual. Some manuals are really well written, and easy to understand with examples for several applications. Some are not complete, lack information or are badly written. Make sure that you like the way the particular VFD is programmed. Some are much easier to program than others. Some have very well made shortform instruction sheets, so that after a few Months you do not need to re-read from scratch the thick user manual to do a little change.
- some VFD have a removable control panel, that you can use as remote control. This is a very desirable feature. Some other VFD can be fitted with an optional remote panel, if this panel is included in the deal it is a very handy to have feature. But if you have to buy it extra at list price its usually too dear to consider. Some basic VFD's have no removable remote panel nor is an optional remote panel available - in most cases this is not a problem, but such VFD's should obviously cost less.

I personally love Yaskawa and Omron VFD's, but these are hard to find at a discounted price. Siemens and Schneider/Telemechanique are nice too, as are ABB and Toshiba and Hitachi and other well known brands. I would shop around for a good brand name at a discounted price. I personally would not buy low cost Chinese VFD's. But that is me. Chris

Thanks Chris,
Have you got a guide to just what a good price might be? A look on eBay shows all sorts from 2nd hand ones under $100 to well over the 1k mark.

The Sew of Aarons does not appear to be a SVD (sensorless vector drive) but a standard vfd. Can anyone confirm that? http://www.sew-eurodrive.com.au/supp...gruppen_id=A36

Ray, I was not aware that the svd's tuned themselves to the motor. As I said though I don't think there will be any problems with power running it just as a 4 pole motor.

Ew

im not shore why i thought it was a vector drive. I think someone may of told me that.
sorry

Originally Posted by Ueee

Thanks Chris,
Have you got a guide to just what a good price might be? A look on eBay shows all sorts from 2nd hand ones under $100 to well over the 1k mark.

The Sew of Aarons does not appear to be a SVD (sensorless vector drive) but a standard vfd. Can anyone confirm that? http://www.sew-eurodrive.com.au/supp...gruppen_id=A36

Ray, I was not aware that the svd's tuned themselves to the motor. As I said though I don't think there will be any problems with power running it just as a 4 pole motor.

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

.......Have you got a guide to just what a good price might be? A look on eBay shows all sorts from 2nd hand ones under $100 to well over the 1k mark.Ew.....

Ew, you are after a 1.5kW Vector type VFD. I am sure you know how to search for it on eBay for the ususal English markets (VFD, VSD etc). I had in the past luck searching on German speaking and French speaking markets, getting me 4 new or near new VFD's at way below new price (one each Omron and Telemechanique from France, one each Yaskawa and Siemens from Germany). All running fantastically well since many years. Try an "international" search for "frequenzumrichter" to see what is on offer in the German speaking world. Try "variateur de vitesse" to see what is on offer in the French speaking world. If they do not list postage cost to AU, just ask them before bidding if they would post it as an airmail parcel. Airmail is very affordable, as VFD's are small and light items compared to their value. But courier freight is invariably too expensive.

I consider any price (including the postage!!!) of at least 1/3 below list price a good price for a brand new VFD. Anything below 50% I would consider irresistible for a current model VFD. That said, I never paid more than 50% list price for my VFD's, including the airmail. But I never was in a rush, always had plenty time to wait for the right bargain. And I have purchased a couple VFD's and did sit on them for years, until I had time to put them to a good use. Sourcing a good motor at a good price also takes its time. Of course my VFD use is only hobby use - else I would just order what I need at list price. I am assuming yours too is for home use, else do not waste time and just order. Chris

I have used a number of danfoss drives at work and they have been a good thing... easier to set up than some others and have proven very reliable.

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

Ew, you are after a 1.5kW Vector type VFD. I am sure you know how to search for it on eBay for the ususal English markets (VFD, VSD etc). I had in the past luck searching on German speaking and French speaking markets, getting me 4 new or near new VFD's at way below new price (one each Omron and Telemechanique from France, one each Yaskawa and Siemens from Germany). All running fantastically well since many years. Try an "international" search for "frequenzumrichter" to see what is on offer in the German speaking world. Try "variateur de vitesse" to see what is on offer in the French speaking world. If they do not list postage cost to AU, just ask them before bidding if they would post it as an airmail parcel. Airmail is very affordable, as VFD's are small and light items compared to their value. But courier freight is invariably too expensive.

I consider any price (including the postage!!!) of at least 1/3 below list price a good price for a brand new VFD. Anything below 50% I would consider irresistible for a current model VFD. That said, I never paid more than 50% list price for my VFD's, including the airmail. But I never was in a rush, always had plenty time to wait for the right bargain. And I have purchased a couple VFD's and did sit on them for years, until I had time to put them to a good use. Sourcing a good motor at a good price also takes its time. Of course my VFD use is only hobby use - else I would just order what I need at list price. I am assuming yours too is for home use, else do not waste time and just order. Chris

last night there was a 4kw Mitsubishi unit sold for 34eros.
what sort of Siemens unit do you have and can you please show a photo?
aaron

Originally Posted by gallegos

I have used a number of danfoss drives at work and they have been a good thing... easier to set up than some others and have proven very reliable.

+1 on Danfoss.

Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

+1 on Danfoss.

Ray

I have been looking on the danfoss site and have found several new cheap units. What i can't seem to see from the site is if they are vector drives or not. The models are all labeled VLT, is there a clue there?

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

I have been looking on the danfoss site and have found several new cheap units. What i can't seem to see from the site is if they are vector drives or not. The models are all labeled VLT, is there a clue there?

Ew

Danfoss uses the term "Flux Vector" where other makers may say "Sensorless vector" or "Sensorless Flux Vector" or simply "Vector". Also it looks like Danfoss uses VLT to mean VFD. If the flyer of the drive in question does not mention the word Vector, then it is not a Vector drive, but a simple V/Hz drive. The word Vector commands by itself a higher product price, so no maker will leave this away (just like if you buy a car, if it has a compressor or a turbocharger it is mentioned prominently so you know why it costs more).

Danfoss specilaizes in all sorts of HVAC products. VFD's in HVAC usually drive pumps and fans. But pumps and fans do not require a high torque at low speeds, that is why cheaper and simpler V/Hz VFD's will suffice perfectly well. I believe this is the main reason why most Danfoss VFD's on the discount market are not Vector drives. Ther newest VFD range may well be vector drives, but probably hard to find yet at a bargain price.

Originally Posted by azzrock

last night there was a 4kw Mitsubishi unit sold for 34eros.
what sort of Siemens unit do you have and can you please show a photo?
aaron

Aaron, I use a Siemens Micromaster Vector 6SE3212-1BA40 (a 1/2HP drive) for my EMCO lathe. Bought it "new old stock" from ebay.de about 7 or 8 years ago, less than $130 posted. I am very happy with it, well made, easy to setup and excellent manuals. But it is a drive designed in the late 90's, I am sure the newer Siemens are even better.

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

Danfoss uses the term "Flux Vector"

They also use the term VVC Voltage Vector Control.

Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

They also use the term VVC Voltage Vector Control.

Ray

And from what I have read it only applies to models VLT 3500 and above.

I have found a nos VLT2040 cheap, and several VLT6040's 2nd hand. The 6000 series has more bells and whistles than I ever thought possible. One thing I really like is they have a dynamic ramp down time so you can set them to ramp down as quickly as possible without overloading. Nice if you have a big chuck and big workpiece one the machine. Pretty pointless with a cluctch and brake though.

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

And from what I have read it only applies to models VLT 3500 and above.

I have found a nos VLT2040 cheap, and several VLT6040's 2nd hand. The 6000 series has more bells and whistles than I ever thought possible. One thing I really like is they have a dynamic ramp down time so you can set them to ramp down as quickly as possible without overloading. Nice if you have a big chuck and big workpiece one the machine. Pretty pointless with a cluctch and brake though.

Ew

The VLT 2000 series, including the VLT 2040 has VVC ( Voltage Vector Control )

There are 5 parameters associated with the motor optimization stuff, you could automatically change these 5 parameters with a small microcontroller that detects the speed switch position, and updates the motor parameters over the modbus network.

Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

The VLT 2000 series, including the VLT 2040 has VVC ( Voltage Vector Control )

There are 5 parameters associated with the motor optimization stuff, you could automatically change these 5 parameters with a small microcontroller that detects the speed switch position, and updates the motor parameters over the modbus network.

Ray

Thanks Ray,
I only had a skim through the manual you sent me last night but I didn't find anything that mentioned the vvc. I'd better go and buy it before someone else does!

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

Thanks Ray,
I only had a skim through the manual you sent me last night but I didn't find anything that mentioned the vvc. I'd better go and buy it before someone else does!

Ew

Try Page 23.

I'm not entirely sure what VVC actually is, I fear it might be just a bit of marketting speak, there is no mention of sensing back-emf or the other language I'd expect for proper vector feedback.

But I think that drive is a bargain anyway.

Ray