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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Bellingen
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    Yep, I can see how breathing through you mouth could get annoying. It's probably a bit like snorkeling. You get lost in what your doing and forget about it? Maybe....some are going to love it and others will not.

    I don't think I could have it in my mouth for long stints, but for quick work I can't see I would have a problem with it.

    Timeless timber, good pick up with that! Your right about the blow off valve needing to be at the front. If it was pointing down at the front it would be a better spot. Less likely to fog your glasses than the 3M ones that are are forward facing which work just fine most of the time.

    I would rather drool from the front than having it run down my back!

    I'm sure they could make a simple device like on a trumpet to blow it off every now and then.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    BELL POST HILL, 3215
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    87
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    93

    Default The Breathing Aid.

    Hi All,
    Just a little worried about a couple of things.
    Not to sure about a nose Clip, & I wood think you wood have to Clean it almost every time you removed it, over any length of time.
    Certainly looks good, & seems to work for Him.

    Yes, I use a rubber mask with 2 Thingo's, 1 on either side. Small light head band, & 1 around the back of my head. Very comfortable, & can wear it up to 3 hours at a time.

    Drool was a prob. at the start, but fixed that by putting a Tissue in the bottom, plenty of room.
    Have a Beard & Glasses, & it doesn't faze me at all.

    Yes, I hope he gets it up and running. Must be a bit better than some.
    Regards,
    issatree.
    Have Lathe, Wood Travel.

  3. #18
    FenceFurniture's Avatar
    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Oct 2010
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    1017m up in Katoomba, NSW
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    372

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    Yebbut if you have an exhaust valve at the front, and underneath, doesn't that make it highly likely that you'd drool over your work? Dripping sweat is bad enough.

    Hmmm.... .... maybe I should get anyone looking at my work to wear one - at least somebody would drool over my work then....

    Timless, surely a build up of CO2 couldn't be a problem in tubes that short?

    The other thing about a nose clip (and without wishing to be coarse) is that they can be right painful unless the nose itself is cleaned out first. Dried mucous (aka sharp boogas) can give you a very quick reminder! I can just imagine answering the phone with it on - spit out the mouthpiece, but forget the noseclip..."mate have you just inhaled helium or summink?"
    Regards, FenceFurniture

  4. #19
    Metmachmad is offline Turning useful pieces of steel into scrap metal.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Riverina, NSW, Australia
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    68
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    138

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    Not such a brilliant idea!
    This bloke is no professional firefighter, the beard he wears is a clear indicator of this. Pro firefighters just do not and can not wear beards, as a beard inhibits achieving a proper seal with a facemask
    A full facemask with positive pressure within the mask is the industry standard now for all firefighing breathing apparatus. It is also essential have a regulated compressed air or oxygen source that is filtered and fit for medical purposes carried on oneself.
    This contraption is a risk to any firefighters life and health and you will never see it or anythingg akin to it being worn at any fire attended by pro firefighters. I suspect this bloke is a volunteer fireman, their standards and training are not up to those of mainstream pro f/fs.
    That devise would give no more respiratory protection than a P2 particle dust mask with the added hinderances of not being able to communicate, constantly breathing dead hot air that can be laden with carbon dioxide/monoxide and other lethal gases and also oxygen deficient air.
    Overall not a good devise to trust your health or life to.

    The images on the link below are what this bloke is advocating his devise will replace, it just won't do it safely.
    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s...a+.au&tbm=isch
    Turning useful pieces of steel into scrap metal.

  5. #20
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    I didn't even think of the hygiene issues - the more I look at it the less brilliant it looks.

    Talking of PPE hygiene I see on an OHS email newsletter that I usually ignore that PPE hygiene is becoming a bit of an issue. Apparently workers regularly putting dirty gloves, masks and muffs inside helmets and hats and then inside bags are breeding and spreading bugs and illness. The message here is routine cleaning especially before storage.

    Another big issue is shared PPE, and I am reminded that the Personal term in PPE means not to be used by anyone else and that employers should issue PPE as personal protection.

    The guys at the mens shed thought I was a bit odd for bringing my own PPE. I didn't actually bring it along for hygienic reasons but more because I reckon mine offers better protection.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth
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    241

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    As mentioned earlier, communication with that thing would be terrible.
    "I need to give clear and concise instructions, I'll just spit it out, inhale a whack of the bad air as I'm talking, and get ready to repeat it again."

    Hygiene-wise, if the filters are easily removed then a quick rinse in water would be the trick, though I expect it would be oft-forgotten by most.

    I wouldn't mind one for welding though, my 3m respirator just fits under my mask but pushes it away just that minute amount to make it annoying. And I'd probably never tend to wear the nose clip, I'd be confident in maintaining an in through the mouth out through the nose breathing pattern.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metmachmad View Post
    Not such a brilliant idea!
    This bloke is no professional firefighter, the beard he wears is a clear indicator of this. Pro firefighters just do not and can not wear beards, as a beard inhibits achieving a proper seal with a facemask.
    This applies to any Firefighter qualified in Breathing Apparatus. The biggest issue with facial hair is not the ingress of toxins, but the loss of air from the positive pressure facemask leading to greatly depleted duration of a BA cylinder. A BA cylinder filled to 160 Bar gives a 22 minute working time plus a 10 minute safety margin according to the rule of thumb fireground calculation. With a constant air leak around the facemask, you could potentially halve your endurance.
    A full facemask with positive pressure within the mask is the industry standard now for all firefighing breathing apparatus. It is also essential have a regulated compressed air or oxygen source that is filtered and fit for medical purposes carried on oneself.
    This contraption is a risk to any firefighters life and health and you will never see it or anythingg akin to it being worn at any fire attended by pro firefighters. I suspect this bloke is a volunteer fireman, their standards and training are not up to those of mainstream pro f/fs.
    As a very professional long term Volunteer firefighter and Brigade Chief I take great offence to that comment. The general population would be stuffed without Volunteer Fireys, yet they still refer to us in derogatory terms, until flames are licking their backsides of course. For information, there are around 300 operational Career Firefighters in Tasmania and around 5000 Volunteer Firefighters. If we weren't damn professional, how much of Tassie would still be standing?
    I don't aim this at you personally, there have been a few references to the Pro/Vollie divide.
    I don't know how other states do it, but in the Tasmania Fire Service qualifications and training for competencies such as Breathing Apparatus are to the same standard as the career firefighters, (all firefighters, both Career and Volunteer are professional in their conduct). You are correct though that this device will never be utilised on the fireground in any capacity. A good rule to live by when fighting vegetation fires is "If you're in the smoke, you're in the wrong place" There are exceptions, but they are easily handled by a P2 mask.
    That devise would give no more respiratory protection than a P2 particle dust mask with the added hinderances of not being able to communicate, constantly breathing dead hot air that can be laden with carbon dioxide/monoxide and other lethal gases and also oxygen deficient air.
    Overall not a good devise to trust your health or life to.
    I would not trust my life to it full stop. I would also be very interested to see some specs on the filtration he proposes when running via a compressed air source. As anyone who has had an involvement with dive compressors will tell you, compressed air filtration for breathing purposes is far more involved then that fitted inside a mickey mouse "gill" unit.

    The images on the link below are what this bloke is advocating his devise will replace, it just won't do it safely.
    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s...a+.au&tbm=isch
    Overall, I don't see this "innovation" getting off the ground.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,447

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    I have no intention of being a firefighter and was still interested right up to the point made about hooking it up to a AIR Compressor.

    A real big NO NO there folks. It would need to be a mighty exceptional filter indeed. I have had to weld using medical oxygen when stocks of the filter cannister were not available. YUK!.

    Air compressor pressure turns some of the MINERAL lube oil into a toxic gas which filters are not likely to capture. OK its under patent and confidential sure !but The reference about the compressor hookup should have been highlighted about the hazard - making me suspect the inventors knowledge about that particular problem.
    I am aware that some new compressors in industry are fitted with a specific warning about not using them for re breathing apparatus.

    Otherwise I have no problems otherwise as mouth breathing comes easy to me as I have to wear a full face CPAP at night. It does need testing and proving .Its only in development and not available yet. The filter- not the CPAP Ok?

    Grahame

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4

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    I've found these types of masks are most useful when you are working in tight places, i.e., sometimes during boat building. I know for sure they are a lot more comfortable in hot weather than bulky masks of various types. They are not the end all, but much better than some. As I understand it, you do not hook it up to a compressor all the time, that is just for some certain conditions, which a wood worker may never get into. I have the rubber masks, they have their drawbacks, I have the Trend Airshield, it has it's draw backs. Once you get use to breathing out your mouth, which for most only takes a little time, the Resp-O-Rator, is very comfortable, except, like I said in a earlier post, for my drooling. I fixed up a little pill bottle and attached to the bottom valve and it caught a lot of the "slobber", but not all. Plsu I needed to remember to empty the bottle.

    I'm also very sure that before these could go into production, well at least in the U.S., there would have to be extensive testing of many kinds and the proper, warning label, cautions, disclaimers, blab, blab, blab, stuff would go with it.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    Overall, I don't see this "innovation" getting off the ground.
    I'm a bit confused about who wrote this but the point about facial hair and BA masks is a little off track. Typically facial hair is not allowed in "most" fire services because of 2 main reasons. These reasons are (1) Discipline. Most fire services akin themselves to a "paramilitary organisation and as such discipline is seen as paramount although I must say this seems to be slipping by the wayside unfortunately. Many people in fire services claim to be "Professional" yet their appearance, demeanour, skills and actions will give a somewhat different impression. I always say that the easiest part of being professional is looking professional yet for some reason some folks can't even manage that!

    Second reason for no facial hair is the operation of Breathing apparatus. Up until about 30 years ago, BA sets were typically "negative pressure" Inhaling from the mask created a pressure less than atmospheric and then air (via the regulator) was allowed into the face mask. One of the main disadvantages with such a system is that if there was any leak either via a poor fitting mask or facial hair then the flow of air/gases would be from the outside. This means inhaling any toxins that maybe in the atmosphere that lead to the reasons behind wearing the system in the first place. Nowdays we have positive pressure systems where the pressure in the mask is typically held about 100mBar (1M head of water approx) pressure above atmospheric. While this helps insuring that any leaks will typically be from the inside out, it is still possible to suck the mask to your face and create a negative pressure in the mask with high work loads. While a leak from the inside out is preferable and may reduce your working duration, it is of little consequence. Safety will always be paramount over a working duration reduction of 5 minutes or so. Air is cheap and there are always plenty of spare BA cylinders if a new one is needed. Hence the reason for a clean shaven face is to ensure a good seal and protection from toxins, not from a reduction in working duration. Like I said, from my point of view, my safety will ALWAYS be more important than whether I get 25 mins or 30 mins from out 200Bar cylinders.

    I also find it mildly amusing how volunteers get hung up about the word "professional firefighter" The word profession pertains to doing something for a living. Do different to professional photographer or professional fisherman etc. WRT competencies, sure there are volunteers that have the same competencies as their full time counterparts but it's proficiency that you get from doing the job 40 - 50 hours a week that can't be achieved from training once a week for a few hours. That would be like comparing my skills to say Machtools in regards to hand scraping! Once you have the competency, it's proficiency that really counts!

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLD View Post
    Looks like a more upgraded, nicer version of this, which I have and has been around for a long time. This one if for dust. It works! Called:

    Resp-O-Rator
    Model JR-7

    Attachment 307205
    A significant delta between the two is where the exhaust air goes. In the resp-O-rater it is ejected down under the chin. in the Gill's it's behind the head making for a cleaning issue as the moisture in the exhaust will let mold develop. The Gills seems to have more connectivity options.

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