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  1. #1
    Ueee's Avatar
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    Default Alignment Telescope mount/stand

    Hi all,
    I thought i'd give this its own thread since it applies to all standard scopes and there seems to be so little info on the web about this.

    My goal is to make a nice rigid stand with a decent range of height adjustment and micro adjustment on 2 axis at both the back and the front of the scope for ease of aiming. Doing some looking i found 2 main types of mount:

    Scope stand 2.jpgLeBlond HD Article 1.jpg

    The first mount is nice but only gives you adjustment of the aiming angle, as the front of the scope is fixed. The second cone type mount gives you adjustment of not only angle but aim. I also thought this would be easier to make, but one thing came to mind. The cone must be concentric with the thread otherwise the scope may move in in all sorts of strange and unexpected directions.

    A few weeks ago i started by cutting a lump of 32mm plate 300x160 on the BS. Of course it would be a whole lot easier now than it was with the small saw!

    DSCN1731 (Large).jpgDSCN1735 (Large).jpgDSCN1736 (Large).jpg

    Some shaper time and i had a plate ready for grinding.

    DSCN1739 (Large).jpg

    I also fished out an old spindle moulder spindle and most importantly rise and fall mechanism. I figure this would be a good course adjuster for height.

    DSCN1796 (Large).jpg

    More to follow

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  2. #2
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    Of course the new BS got in the way a bit but now that is mostly sorted i spent some time on the mount yesterday and today.

    I cut 4 bits of 50mm dia bright bar for the cones. They are long enough for the cone itself and then a 10mm skirt that can be graduated. For any movement of the scope the cones need to be moved the same amount, to go up at the front both cones have to go up the same or the scope will also shift sideways. To go left the left cone goes up and the right cone has to go down by the same amount or the height will change etc. Hence my reasoning for the graduations which don't seem to be on any commercially made units.

    Anyway, i faced, drilled and reamed the blocks to 18mm (although my cheap CTC reamer seems to have made holes ranging from 18.02-18.04, could be the way i'm using it too)

    I then cut 4 lengths of 19mm bar. These will be threaded 5/8 x 18 (because it just happens to be the finest tap of a decent size i own) to be a nice but not at all loose fit in the tapped holes. The other end will be turned for a nice press fit and then the cone can be turned on the same centers as the thread. Just hope there is no bending of the bar when pressed. I could have machined them from i piece of 50mm but at nearly $70/m (i'm guessing this is probably a bit higher than the bigger cities) i wasn't going to turn so much of it to swarf. Plus its extra experience and skills to learn...and more ways to stuff up

    DSCN1788 (Large).jpgDSCN1789 (Large).jpg

    I also used my "new" parting tool that Andre traded me. Its a 4mm wide iscar. My 2mm just would not raise to the task with all the extra power the Antrac has over the Mars. It cuts beautifully.

    DSCN1795 (Large).jpg

    Now i need some ideas, do i

    -Drill and tap directly into the block, and work out some kind of way of locking the threads once adjusted,

    -Make bolt on mounts like in the pic in the last post?

    I think the best form of lock would be to split the threaded hole and close it up with a thumb screw, but i don't know if there will be too much meat in the plate to get a good bit of flex. I am yet to come up with a final layout for the cones but i think the threaded holes will be around 30mm from the edge of the plate to center. 30 x 22 is a bix section size to flex.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  3. #3
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    Default telesope mounting

    Hi Ueee
    What sort of telescope is it. By the look of your progress so far it must be a fairly big one.

    Roger

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Of course the new BS got in the way a bit but now that is mostly sorted i spent some time on the mount yesterday and today.

    I cut 4 bits of 50mm dia bright bar for the cones. They are long enough for the cone itself and then a 10mm skirt that can be graduated. For any movement of the scope the cones need to be moved the same amount, to go up at the front both cones have to go up the same or the scope will also shift sideways. To go left the left cone goes up and the right cone has to go down by the same amount or the height will change etc. Hence my reasoning for the graduations which don't seem to be on any commercially made units.

    Anyway, i faced, drilled and reamed the blocks to 18mm (although my cheap CTC reamer seems to have made holes ranging from 18.02-18.04, could be the way i'm using it too)

    I then cut 4 lengths of 19mm bar. These will be threaded 5/8 x 18 (because it just happens to be the finest tap of a decent size i own) to be a nice but not at all loose fit in the tapped holes. The other end will be turned for a nice press fit and then the cone can be turned on the same centers as the thread. Just hope there is no bending of the bar when pressed. I could have machined them from i piece of 50mm but at nearly $70/m (i'm guessing this is probably a bit higher than the bigger cities) i wasn't going to turn so much of it to swarf. Plus its extra experience and skills to learn...and more ways to stuff up

    DSCN1788 (Large).jpgDSCN1789 (Large).jpg

    I also used my "new" parting tool that Andre traded me. Its a 4mm wide iscar. My 2mm just would not raise to the task with all the extra power the Antrac has over the Mars. It cuts beautifully.

    DSCN1795 (Large).jpg

    Now i need some ideas, do i

    -Drill and tap directly into the block, and work out some kind of way of locking the threads once adjusted,

    -Make bolt on mounts like in the pic in the last post?

    I think the best form of lock would be to split the threaded hole and close it up with a thumb screw, but i don't know if there will be too much meat in the plate to get a good bit of flex. I am yet to come up with a final layout for the cones but i think the threaded holes will be around 30mm from the edge of the plate to center. 30 x 22 is a bix section size to flex.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    How about a simple knurled lock "nut" on the adjuster's thread? ( I don't know if that would get in the way of your calibrated skirt. ) Or a brass, bronze or aluminium nosed thumbscrew bearing directly on the thread?

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    Default

    Hi Ewan,

    Good project, I can see Stuart will want one of these too... I like the clamp mechanism as shown in the picture, you can make the adjustment progressively stiffer and therefore have less movement in the cone position when you lock into final location. Maybe you can include a pointer to the calibration markers somehow?

    Ray

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Good project, I can see Stuart will want one of these too...
    Well he would have if the postage wasnt so steep.

    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    I like the clamp mechanism as shown in the picture, you can make the adjustment progressively stiffer and therefore have less movement in the cone position when you lock into final location.
    I was just about to say the same thing............ just not as well. I'm not so sure it needs to lock as such, would the scope ever be moved in use? but adjustment of the stiffness would be handy

    Not so sure about the calibration markers, I'd think you'll be looking through the scope while making adjustments..... but they cant hurt and a lot easier to add now and prove me wrong than dicide you want them later.

    I'm also not sure about adjustemt both ends, I'm thinking one end with vertical adjustment on the target.......but again, not going to be much more work to add them now even if you dont end up using them.

    You sure and some quality scap there

    Stuart

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    Default

    How do you "clamp" the scope to the base so it doesnt move while you are twiddling the dials?

    Stuart

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    How about a simple knurled lock "nut" on the adjuster's thread? ( I don't know if that would get in the way of your calibrated skirt. ) Or a brass, bronze or aluminium nosed thumbscrew bearing directly on the thread?
    Hi Bob,
    The thought of a soft nosed screw on the thread passed my mind, but i'm worried that locking like that may move the cone slightly.

    Roger, its an alignment scope, not a stargazing one. Its about 16" long with a 2.250" dia barrel. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/ta...-scope-180564/

    The problem i have with height adjustment at one end is if you want to keep the scope level but lift the whole thing say .050" because you have run out of mic adjustment. You cant do that with the fixed gimble type mount. Or am i missing something?

    Ray/Stuart,
    I agree the clamp type lock is probably the best. I'm just worried about the steel plate not being able to flex......

    We all know Stuart wants one.....but the shipping price is the big killer. Not sure how i got away with what i paid.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    How do you "clamp" the scope to the base so it doesnt move while you are twiddling the dials?

    Stuart
    Firstly it weighs about 15 lbs....

    The commercial ones have springs, like flat hold downs on rods that are perpendicular to the base. I was thinking a couple of coil springs stretched over it one at either end, hooked to the base. When using it in the V blocks the biggest problem was actually stopping it from wanting to twist.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    The problem i have with height adjustment at one end is if you want to keep the scope level but lift the whole thing say .050" because you have run out of mic adjustment. You cant do that with the fixed gimble type mount. Or am i missing something?
    Bearing in mind I know little of what I am talking about .
    But I cant see why you'd want to do this. If you are looking at a target, as I said I think it would be far easier to move the target vertically. If you're using it as an autocollimator, a vertical adjustment isnt going to do you any good is it?(having said that I'd still have it adjustable both ends........ so I'm not sure why I bought it up lol)

    As far as holding it down.......How about two straps of "steel-leather-plastic??". Each fixed on one side, with a spring on the other side? Wouldnt one stop it turning clockwise and the other stop it turning anti clockwise???

    Stuart

  11. #11
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    Then you have to make a more complicated target. I have some right angle bits of cast i was going to make into targets. One mirror and one bullseye, nice and simple. It had not occurred to me yet that height adjustment is pointless for either reflection mode, i'm sure i would have gotten there eventually.

    I like the strap idea. A bit of old spring from a tape measure, or some old flat drive belt maybe.

    At least when you do find one you'll have me as a guinea pig and you'll know what not to do.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    and what do mirror targets need to be that bullseye target don't?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    and what do mirror targets need to be that bullseye target don't?
    Is that some kind of riddle? Or are you referring to the squareness factor?
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    Yes it was. Yes I was.
    (It was 2:30am and I was on my tablet, hate typing on that thing)

    So for either reflection mode vertical adjustment is useless but the mirror has to be pretty close to square.
    For target mode(if thats what its called) vertical adjustment is needed but the target doesnt need to be square(so adjustment that end would be pretty easy.)


    I think



    Stuart

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    I found something out last night from the Phantom. The first stand i put a pic of in has one advantage over the other. The optical axis is set at a fixed and accurate distance of the bottom of the base. The targets share the same dimension, so you should be able to set up the scope level on a datum surface and easily see just how high/low the datum point is.

    Any way, since i am planning to put mine on a tripod i don't see the advantage of this in my case. Maybe i'll be making another mount one day...who knows?

    The results of today were to machine and press together the cone parts, taper and thread them. All worked a treat in the end, but my reamed holes were even worse then i thought at .711"/18.06ishmm

    Attached is also a quick sketch of my proposed thread lock.

    Cheers,
    Ew
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    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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