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  1. #1
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    Default Sheet Metal Folder WIP

    Hello all,

    After some pressure I decided to start the WIP on my sheet metal folder. The decision to make (read make an attempt at making one) a folder came about because of several reasons.

    (1) About 10 years ago my father in law gave me a quantity of various steel pieces. Several of them quite large in both length/width and thickness. In the last 10 years I have moved 3 times and so has this damn steel. until now it was mostly too big to cut but too good to throw away. Bare in mind that this stuff was given to me BEFORE I acquired my lathe so it was all pre lathe, pre mill and certainly pre bandsaw. I so nearly sent it to scrap as I really could not envisage a shed of metal working equipment back then or a need for such steel.

    (2)After seeing Michaels sheet folder presented in another thread (couldn't find it) I was so impressed I asked Michael for some more detailed pics which he obliged with the following thread: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/fo...o-tour-177129/

    (3) I was so impressed with the quality of the design I decided that I would base my design around it.

    So, the sheet metal folder I am building is a 900mm folder with fingers. It is "loosely" based on the design of Michaels but not exact. In all honesty I could not predict the forces involved in folding sheet metal nor could I calculate what sizes of materials I need in order to achieve a folder that would do the job and not overly flex in the process. So, where possible I have used similar or larger dimensions to Michaels.

    Pic (1) a selection of steel available to me which I deemed suiting of such a project. More pics to follow….

    PA210147.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  2. #2
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    OK. I'm having some trouble with attaching pics. There appears to be a rouge pic in the last post!

    The fist thing I put together was the leaf. In my stash of steel I had a piece of steel 560x330x20mm plate. Looks like BMS but it may be a medium carbon (maybe boiler plate) steel. At 650 it no good for a 900mm folder but it's way over sized for a 600 folder too! So I acquired a couple of 20mm thick end bits which I will weld together to form the 900mm leaf.

    The ends where then notched, faced and had 3 1/2 inch elongated holes milled in to accept the the fasteners from the hinges. The elongated holes allow for some adjustment in the leaf and the radius of the fold. The milled surface is to ensure that the leaf will sit flat on the hinge and to bring the edge in line with the axis of the hinge….

    PA220150.jpg PA220152.jpgPA210149.jpgPA240158.jpg
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #3
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    Next were the hinges. These (so far) have produced the greatest challenge to me so far for a number of reasons. The piece of steel I had allocated was a single piece about 350x250x50mm thick medium carbon steel. There was physically enough steel to make the hinges but not in the right dimensions to make the hinges out of one piece. The hinges had to be made in two halves and then welded together. While the steel seemed to weld OK with GP electrodes, I decided to use low hydrogen for the job with a little pre-heat. I took the steel to the local steel merchant who is also a boiler maker and he agreed with my assessment. I had never used Low Hydrogen electrodes before and so this also posed a challenge to me. By now I wished I had learnt on something a little less critical. I only had one piece of this steel and couldn't afford to stuff it up!

    Anyway, I finally go there. The welds are certainly not my best but they should be OK given the hinges are most likely over engineered. The steel was broken down into rough sections with a combination of my bandsaw and drilling holes/hacksaw. I then milled them down to the required size and did the radius using the RT on the mill. I wore out a brand new 18mm end mill in the process. The steel was pretty tough.

    In order to minimise warp from welding I fashioned a 27mm parallel block to place between the two halves and then clamped them together. I then partially bit by bit welded both sides. The side where the leaf will attach to needed to be flat so I machined a chamfer on the mating sides and filled with weld and then faced it flat again. There was some warping after welding but to my credit I decided to bore the holes for the bronze bush and pin AFTER welding the two together so any warping is of little consequence. The holes are yet to be bored. I may do that on Friday next week.

    Last, I welded some reinforcement on the sides and the bottom. The bottom has a hole that will be threaded to take an M12 nut and will adjust the leaf. The 3 M12 threads that will take the bolts to fasten the leaf are yet to be drilled & tapped. Machined steel doesn't look at nice when you weld it

    PA220153.jpgPA280161.jpgPA260159.jpg PA280162.jpgPB010164.jpgPB080169.jpgPB080170.jpgP1250215.jpg

    Cheers,

    Simon
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  4. #4
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    Next, once I have welded the leaf and bored the holes in the hinges, I will tackle making the end plates. These will be made out of a 40mm slab of steel. Yet to decide how I will break that down into sections………. Drilling holes and connecting the dots seems to be the go at this stage. Looks to be the same type of steel as the hinges. Once again, It's a large piece of steel but there is just enough of it to allow me to cut out the end plates and dodge all the holes in it. If I'm careful, there should also be enough material left to make the fingers as well and perhaps the eccentric cams on each side that lift/lower the top beam.

    That's it for now…….. Now you know why I waited before starting the thread!

    P1250216.jpg

    Simon
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  5. #5
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    Well, don't stop there - finish the job. We want to see how it works.

    Michael

    PS - you were originally hooked here - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/an...ml#post1700922

  6. #6
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    Thanks Simon, great work. It's great that you sourced the material cheaply, otherwise it might be have been cheaper to buy one ready made.
    Kryn

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    Well, don't stop there - finish the job. We want to see how it works.

    Michael

    PS - you were originally hooked here - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/an...ml#post1700922
    Hi Michael,

    Yes that's it. I looked hard to find that thread as I wanted to add that to this thread. Couldn't find it.

    I should get more done from now on. Both kids be at school from this year on! Yay!

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Thanks Simon, great work. It's great that you sourced the material cheaply, otherwise it might be have been cheaper to buy one ready made.
    Kryn
    Hi Kryn,

    Yes, that was one of the design briefs with this project. (1) to put to good use all that heavy steel I had and (2) As little cost as possible as otherwise I may have just bought one!

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  9. #9
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    Great WIP Simon.

  10. #10
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    Well it's been slow progress.

    Yesterday I bored one of the two holes on one of the leaf hinges. This material is tough and really seems to laugh at me when I go to bore a hole with my (seemingly) inadequate 50mm boring head. No amount of adjustment, speed, feed or DOC seemed to make a difference to the chatter of the cutter. I was hoping to drill out as much as possible and then use the boring head to all but the last 1mm or so. I needed the final diameter to be 35.0mm in order to accept a 35x28x30mm bronze bush. I got there in the end but I had to resort to a 32mm hole saw to get me most of the way and even then, to get from 32mm to 35mm seemed a real chore!

    The finish of the bored hole is not to my liking but since it will house a bush it's not too much of an issue. The most difficult part is ensuring the other side of the hinge is bored in the same axis. I was planning on doing this through the hole I just bored but I will have to use the 32mm hole saw to get me most of the way first. The only way to do this is to flip it over. Doing so means I have to be pretty good with my alignment although you would expect I should be able to manage this with the allowed +/- 1.5mm.

    Here's a pic of the first hole….. with the bronze bush fitted so that you can't see my chatter!

    On a side note, I have been slowly collecting material (on the cheap) for this project for several months now, in addition to what I already had. I still need some suitable material for key parts but I'm confident I will find it along the way before I get to the stage of needing it. Of the items I'm a little short are suitable amounts of material for the fingers. By chance I came across some "steel" from one of the many scrap metal places I frequent. two pieces (about 2M in total) of 80x20. At $1 per Kg I figured I couldn't go wrong even if 20mm was a little light for the fingers, 25mm would have been preferred. I get it home and on the other side is painted Bohler M200. Turns out its pre hardened (machinable) steel tensile strength of 1000Mpa. Not a bad find for equivalent to $13/Metre. I think it will make good fingers. I'll be on the look out for more of that stuff!

    Cheers,

    Simon20140131_192653.jpg
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  11. #11
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    Hi Simon,
    is there any chance of a range of pics from different angles of your boring head with the cutter in it.
    I think there may be something going on that could be an easy fix.

    Phil

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer View Post
    Hi Simon,
    is there any chance of a range of pics from different angles of your boring head with the cutter in it.
    I think there may be something going on that could be an easy fix.

    Phil
    No problems Phil. Can you wait till Monday? Heading to the centre of the known universe today, coming back Sunday. WRT the boring head, I even tried fitting my boring bar on it from my lathe tools. Sounds terrible too, awful squealing noise. Being able to change the speed on the go with the VFD, I was unable to find a "sweet spot" with the speed while cutting. I figured it must something I'm doing wrong. While it's tough material, It's only a 35mm hole. Not a big ask even on my piece of cheese machine!

    Edit: Oh I should add, I do suspect that it may be tool deflection. It's a 12mm boring bar (boring head takes 12mm tools) and it's protruding about 95mm. I need at least 90mm in order to reach both both ends.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    I do suspect that it may be tool deflection. It's a 12mm boring bar (boring head takes 12mm tools) and it's protruding about 95mm. I need at least 90mm in order to reach both both ends.
    That is possible. Are you able to bore between centres on your lathe? Certainly get less deflection and you could use a bigger bar. You may even be able to strap both hinges together on a plate so that the bores are in line.

    Michael

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    That is possible. Are you able to bore between centres on your lathe? Certainly get less deflection and you could use a bigger bar. You may even be able to strap both hinges together on a plate so that the bores are in line.

    Michael
    Hi Michael, was just about to add to this thread when I realised I didn't reply to your last comment. How rude! Sorry.

    Well, better late than never! I finally managed to finish one hinge, well nearly. The hard part is done. I managed to rough bore both holes from both sides using a rough and dirty 32mm hole saw. I then finished to the required 35.0mm from the one end with the boring bar. I used 1,2,3 blocks, parallels and my angle plate to ensure the hole was bored relative to the correct datums (i.e. the leaf axis). I still got a fair amount of chatter and to be honest, the bush is a nice fit but not as snug as I was hoping. I was hoping for a fit that required a gentle tap with the mallet but I got a fit that can be pushed in by hand. I figure I have 3 choices from here:

    (1) accept the fit and move on. It will most likely be OK
    (2) Loctite the Bushes in with a super retaining liquid
    (3) Smear the inside of the hole with metal filler and then re-bore the hole about 0.05mm smaller and then hopefully pre fit the bush in the hole using lactate.

    I'm thinking either (2) or (3). What are your thoughts on (3)?

    No photos ATS because I still have it set up in place in case I want to go with 3.

    Cheers,

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    the bush is a nice fit but not as snug as I was hoping. I was hoping for a fit that required a gentle tap with the mallet but I got a fit that can be pushed in by hand. I figure I have 3 choices from here:

    (1) accept the fit and move on. It will most likely be OK
    (2) Loctite the Bushes in with a super retaining liquid
    (3) Smear the inside of the hole with metal filler and then re-bore the hole about 0.05mm smaller and then hopefully pre fit the bush in the hole using lactate.

    I'm thinking either (2) or (3). What are your thoughts on (3)?

    Cheers,

    Simon
    Pardon me from butting in here Simon, I just couldn't resist, but I prefer to use lactate in tea or coffee, and loctite for retaining bushes or preventing threaded fasteners from loosening.
    Nice work with challenging materials though, and good luck with the rest of your project.
    Rob.

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