Thread: Shaper Heading my way!

you could probably clamp my whole shaper in the queens vice Ew. Your getting some nice kit simon

Hey Ewan;

You just lay off that Macson. It's the same size & model as mine.

Ken

Thanks Guys, you are all too kind!

Well it's home and safe. Given that I borrowed the trailer from my next door neighbour and that it's about 30 years old and no compliance plate, I really had no idea of it's load rating. Pushing sideways on the trailer once that shaper was on and hearing a "clunk clunk" from the play in the wheel bearings did not inspire confidence either! Lucky I had my non contact thermometer, so I could hang out the window and monitor their temps while driving….

But, sitting on 80 - 90Km/h all the way home and taking it easy, we got there. Now I just have to lift the bloody thing off. I'm not Kennards Hire like Harty and don't have a fork lift in my backyard! My engine crane just manages to take the weight but I'm yet to lift it off and drive the trailer away...

It was great to catch up with Harty again and get a look in the shed of a genius! You have a lot of in there Harty………. But it's all good !

Hey Harty, you left a finishing tool in the shaper, is that complimentary or do you want it back?

Couple of pics….
20140202_142203.jpg20140201_170137.jpg

Yea yea, I know they are sideways. It's because Horsham is at the centre of the known Universe!

Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

I really had no idea of it's load rating.

Single axle, no brakes = 750kg gross I think, so approx 500 load.

Couple of pics….
Yea yea, I know they are sideways. It's because Horsham is at the centre of the known Universe!

No, it's because the gumby with the phone held it the wrong way!
At least there's one thing in those pics that looks good....

Bryan; you got that wrong. More like a tonne of better. The heavyweight gantry here really settled down when it took the weight and they are hard to push around on a pallet trolley.

Simon. What sort of engine crane do you have? Be careful. I have a stronger home made one here and it will only lift one end at a time; and then the legs are starting to bend under the weight.
I also see it is missing the cast belt guard and front steady leg. The steady leg is only a piece of round with a flat machined along it's length for the locking bolt and a square cast iron foot that slides across the base.

Ken

Hi Bryan,

you are correct about single axle unbaked but this trailer is a tandem with brakes. I've got a single axle unbraked and thats why I didn't use it. I can only assume this trailer has a rating of somewhere between 750Kg - 1200Kg but probably about 1000Kg so most likely still overloaded….. Oh, did I mention that the rego has also expired?

Hi Ken,

I have a home built engine crane. While the shaper really gave it something to think about, nothing bent. A bit of flex and bounce but no bending….. so far. I don't think I would like to lift anything heavier though! WRT the belt guard and leg, it has both. The belt guard is actually in place and the leg is in the back of the car at that stage. Harty was also kind enough to remember to give me the shaft bit thingy to attach when you do internal keyways etc.

Another pic. This is the point of maximum pucker, when it's levitating 1" about the trailer floor and then you rip the trailer out from under it and it's now 3' about the ground!

And….. the gummy got it the right way round!

Simon20140202_151944.jpg

Originally Posted by simonl

you are correct about single axle unbaked but this trailer is a tandem with brakes.

My mistake, good to hear.

Hi Simon,

Good to see it made it home safe. Just remember to keep it far enough from the wall. Is it set up for 240V?

Its off the trailer now so I doubt this will be much help, but if you need to lower the height of things you "maybe" able to sling it as per the picture, though this is a different machine, you'd want to see if you could fine the same in a manual for your machine.(of course your manual my say to lift it how you have done in which case you've wasted your time reading this)


Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Well it's roughly in it's final resting place (give or take). It may need to come out a bit from the wall when allowing for maximum stroke and the ram set back as far as possible but I'll worry about that later when it's not 50 deg in the shed! Also I do remember you saying that for safety that you should be far enough away from the wall so as not to become a potential death trap too!

WRT lifting. I had not given much thought admittedly but the way I lifted it was the way Harty lifted onto the trailer so I just re-used his method. Thanks for sharing that picture though.

On another note, one thing I really admire about these machines which I had not picked up on, Even with moderate wear, on many of the moving parts, it's still inherently capable of accurate work. The simplicity of the racketing system and the pendulum action, it's simply brilliant! Love it.

Edit: No it's not set up for 240V. The more I think about it the more I kick myself for not getting 3 phase into the house when we built. Now it's a constant issue! I have not thought about what to do WRT powering it up. I look at all the original old name plates and the history of the machine and I'm kinda hesitant to make any modifications to it, albeit minor ones……… Now, if I think with my head and not my heart, I will look to change the motor windings and bring out all 6 so it can be configured for star or delta which I have done with 2 other motors. This done neatly would be unobtrusive and always allow the machine to re re-instated. Has much changed in 3 phase motors in the last 70 years that I need to know about before considering?

The other option is to built a rotary phase converter….

Cheers,

Simon

glad to see it made it home safe
you can keep the tooling
I also just found the handle in the shed so i will need to get that to you we must have left it on the bench

cheers
harty

Originally Posted by harty69

glad to see it made it home safe
you can keep the tooling
I also just found the handle in the shed so i will need to get that to you we must have left it on the bench

cheers
harty

Handle? I got that work of art handle. Is there another?
The only other thing I forgot to take was your surface grinder…..

Simon

Well I know I promised myself not to mess with the shaper until I finished my folder project BUT……..

Well I have to confess, the design of machines from the 40's 50's & 60's just fascinates me. I decided to dismantle the motor to see how difficult it would be to convert to delta for VFD use. I must say, once the distinctly "old" cast iron cage was removed, what was revealed were windings and an armature not that different to a motor I converted that was built only a couple of years ago! Sure, the insulation may look a bit older and use "older" insulation technologies but the rest is the same! One thing I was intrigued by, the condition of the bearings. Still plenty of life AND they were made in Australia by UBC, in Echuca I assume? The star connection was easily found and so I brought all 6 wires out into the J box for future use. While the bearings were good, I couldn't help but clean them out and re-pack with fresh grease, I figured I owed the motor that much since I took it apart!

I was going to leave it there but then I started to look at all the oil points and the fact that Harty mentioned that the previous owner thought they were grease nipples and filled them all full of grease. So, the bearing journals on each side of the gearbox caught my eye so I took them apart to see how they were put together. I was expecting ball bearings same as the motor but no, each side has 3 very large bronze bushes and I mean large. Didn't measure them but they looked to be about 3" long with a big flange where they screw onto the outside. So I cleaned them all up and the oiler holes and put them back together and left with a whole new level of respect for engineering design from 60 years ago. These things will last forever if treated properly!

I'm already on the look out for future purchases from this era. While I love my Chinese mill and lathe, they really cannot compete with such elegance, engineering and charm.

Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

I'm already on the look out for future purchases from this era. While I love my Chinese mill and lathe, they really cannot compete with such elegance, engineering and charm.

And this is why I'm slowly hunting older machines - My 50's built Mars Lathe is just so much more substantial and better put together than any of the chinese lathe's i've had the preasure of using ni the last 10 years...

Having said that - some of the older stuff can be a little scary from an OHS perspective - the big old turret lathe at a workshop i spent some time at kep the motor running the whole time, and clutched in the drive in either forward or reverse - no safety stops anywhere, and if you over shot the stop position, it's go into reverse (With, as I have since learned, the potential to sping the chuck off the spindle!)

I hear you Gammaboy. I've seen a couple of industrial accidents in my time. I certainly don't intend on making the 6:00 pm news! I think this shaper is potentially the most lethal in my shed. Forget about loosing a finger, I think if you put something where it's not meant to go, it would rip your arm off and slap you in the face with it! Luckily, the motor and belt has a guard which I would have thought was a luxury back when it was built!

Had it running today and made my first chips. The motor runs well on the VFD. I don't intend deviating from the 50Hz since the 4 speeds on the gearbox will be sufficient and I think the motor deserves to be treated fairly in it's later years in life. I'm running it from the VFD from the mill. I intend using the one VFD for the mill, the shaper and the lathe (when converted) I'll run a 3 way 3 phase switch to select the machine to power and I will also have individual controls on each machine. A switch will transfer the controls from one to another for such things a speed. The stop function can be active on all machines, all the time, same same as the jog function.

Cheers,

Simon

Hi all, yesterdays effort playing around with the gearbox bearings got me thinking. Does anyone know why a manufacturer chooses bronze bushes over ball bearings? I'm interested because both my mill and lathe gearboxes have shafts that are supported with ball bearings at each end. From a technical aspect, what are the advantages/disadvantages of ball bearings and bushes. I assume if the shaper maker wanted ball bearings they would have been just as easy to install. The original motor has ball bearings so it's not like they were hard to come by. Can only assume that bushes are superior under curtain circumstances?

Simon