Thread: Cern

I'll be posting some pictures of the workshops tomorrow so, this thread is going to be more about the engineering behind the LHC and the main detectors, rather than the physics of fundamental particles as such..

We got in late last night ( after a short stop at the Munich Octoberfest, now there's a dangerous place ) and we are staying in the on-site campus hostel, which is pretty basic but quite nice. The campus cafeteria is pretty good too.


Today we were supposed to be visiting the ATLAS detector, but there is an open day coming up this weekend and they have closed off access to the underground sections, but we did get a very nice tour of the above ground control room and facilities by one of the physicists who talked in some detail about the detector.. It's a massive 7000 tonne construction of superconducting toroidal magnets and complex electronic detectors of various types.. It's all precision machined parts, and accurate to 5 microns.

ATLAS alone, employs around 3500 scientists. About 1000 of those are PhD students. I think CMS has similar numbers and ALICE and LHCb fewer scientists.

Part of the ATLAS building has a diagram of the detector painted on the building itself. This is the detector that initially found the Higgs Bosun, the CMS has also detected it. The actual detector is much bigger than the painting..

2013_CERN 015 (Medium) (2).jpg2013_CERN 008 (Medium).jpg2013_CERN 009 (Medium).jpg2013_CERN 010 (Medium).jpg

The pictures showing the crosssection of the ring, weren't taken underground, they are from a sample section
on display in the visitors center.

The other detectors, are CMS, ALICE and LHCb all with different experimental focus.

Before the week is out we will get to see CMS and ALICE. I don't think we will get to see LHCb.

The whole machine is currently shut down for 2 years so now is a rare opportunity to get a look at the underground detectors.

When the upgrade is finished the full power of the machine will be 14 TeV there are two beams of protons counter rotating, and each beam has about the same energy as a car travelling at 1600 kph, the energy stored in the magnets would be enough to melt 50 tonnes of copper...

When operating the super conducting magnets are at only 1.7K which makes them amongst the coldest things in the Galaxy, and in the collisions the beams get up to temperatures close to big bang temperatures, which makes for one of the hottest places in the universe.

I don't really grasp the intricacies of the standard model of particle physics, but the engineering is just awe inspiring stuff...

More to come later.. especially the machine shop. I'm pretty sure there has to be a Schaublin in there somewhere...

Regards
Ray

PS.. Some good pictures of ATLAS here ATLAS experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The workshops lived up to and exceeded our expectations, Josh Matthew and myself took plenty of pictures, and hopefully we can remember some of the detail.

Their work is mostly parts requested by the scientists for constructing new equipment or maintaining existing equipment.

Typical of the sort of high precision parts are things like this..

2013_CERN_WKSHOP 006 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 007 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 008 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 009 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 010 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 011 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 012 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 013 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 014 (Large).jpg

I caught an end on glimpse of this little gem..
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 015 (Large).jpg

A nice looking Schaublin 160...
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 016 (Large).jpg

The workhorse machines are the Deckel CNC's this is their biggest a DMU 210 FD
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 017 (Large).jpg

The guy reckoned their most accurate machine for large jobs is this Rechle & Knoedler Bed Mill
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 020 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 022 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 023 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 024 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 025 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 026 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 027 (Large).jpg

More to come... more than a few Deckels.. including an FP2LB plus metrology, electron beam welding etc..


Regards
Ray

Nice Ray. You had me going with that first photo - I was trying to work out the part shape before realising from the 4th photo that there were two separate parts there.
Is any of the machinery or measuring equipment not Euro sourced? What proportion is manual vs. CNC? (Or are the parts too complex such that CNC makes more sense)

Michael

If it can cut to 5 microns then probably not like any Schaublin we've ever seen. Hope to see your pictures of those machines cause I'm sure they won't let you sneak one out with you when you leave!

Cheers

The Beryl Bloke

Originally Posted by RayG

I'll be posting some pictures of the workshops tomorrow so, this thread is going to be more about the engineering behind the LHC and the main detectors, rather than the physics of fundamental particles as such..

We got in late last night ( after a short stop at the Munich Octoberfest, now there's a dangerous place ) and we are staying in the on-site campus hostel, which is pretty basic but quite nice. The campus cafeteria is pretty good too.


Today we were supposed to be visiting the ATLAS detector, but there is an open day coming up this weekend and they have closed off access to the underground sections, but we did get a very nice tour of the above ground control room and facilities by one of the physicists who talked in some detail about the detector.. It's a massive 7000 tonne construction of superconducting toroidal magnets and complex electronic detectors of various types.. It's all precision machined parts, and accurate to 5 microns.

ATLAS alone, employs around 3500 scientists. About 1000 of those are PhD students. I think CMS has similar numbers and ALICE and LHCb fewer scientists.

Part of the ATLAS building has a diagram of the detector painted on the building itself. This is the detector that initially found the Higgs Bosun, the CMS has also detected it. The actual detector is much bigger than the painting..

2013_CERN 015 (Medium) (2).jpg2013_CERN 008 (Medium).jpg2013_CERN 009 (Medium).jpg2013_CERN 010 (Medium).jpg

The pictures showing the crosssection of the ring, weren't taken underground, they are from a sample section
on display in the visitors center.

The other detectors, are CMS, ALICE and LHCb all with different experimental focus.

Before the week is out we will get to see CMS and ALICE. I don't think we will get to see LHCb.

The whole machine is currently shut down for 2 years so now is a rare opportunity to get a look at the underground detectors.

When the upgrade is finished the full power of the machine will be 14 TeV there are two beams of protons counter rotating, and each beam has about the same energy as a car travelling at 1600 kph, the energy stored in the magnets would be enough to melt 50 tonnes of copper...

When operating the super conducting magnets are at only 1.7K which makes them amongst the coldest things in the Galaxy, and in the collisions the beams get up to temperatures close to big bang temperatures, which makes for one of the hottest places in the universe.

I don't really grasp the intricacies of the standard model of particle physics, but the engineering is just awe inspiring stuff...

More to come later.. especially the machine shop. I'm pretty sure there has to be a Schaublin in there somewhere...

Regards
Ray

PS.. Some good pictures of ATLAS here ATLAS experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

The guy reckoned their most accurate machine for large jobs is this Rechle & Knoedler Bed Mill

Bed Mill? looks like a converted planer to me. or is this normal?


Stuart

I envy you big time ray. Loving the pics.
You must be hating every minute of this.

Phil

The Bed Mill looks like it can be used as a single point tool planer or a mill.
There appears to be the 2 heads on the cross slide.
Thats how it looks to me.
Very nice machinery.
regards
Bruce

Yes Stuart has it ( and Bruce ) it's a planer with a milling head option. Josh thinks the milling head is factory original. So that makes it a planer used as a gantry type bed mill..

Regards
Ray

Its got a third head on the side as well.

So the table would have to be moved with a leadscrew?

I wish I had a need for something that big.... it would look a little silly with a piece of 100x25mm black bar clamped to the table lol

Stuart

The 3 pictures of the Collet machine, at the end of the last post, were supposed to go here.. so here they are again.

2013_CERN_WKSHOP 018 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 019 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 021 (Large).jpg

They have a couple of wire cutting machines, which seem to produce impossible to machine objects.
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 028 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 029 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 030 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 031 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 032 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 033 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 034 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 035 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 036 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 037 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 038 (Large).jpg

Just outside... guess what a nice little FP3 and a Fehlman drill press, they seem to have these scattered all throughout the workshop There were a couple of sweet Aciera drill presses as well.. pics later
And a Schaublin 125 CNC lathe.

2013_CERN_WKSHOP 039 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 040 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 041 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 042 (Large).jpg

The main machining seems to be dome on Deckel DMG's of various models including 5 axis machines.

2013_CERN_WKSHOP 044 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 045 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 046 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 047 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 048 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 049 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 055 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 056 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 057 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 058 (Large).jpg


Still more ...

Regards
Ray

Ray amazing places you visit many thanks for sharing

One of the parts they make is a faraday shield that goes around the beam to stop the beam em radiation getting into the electronics, but without affecting the particles, so it's critical that this part be as thin as possible, to do this they machine one side and then flip it over into a precisely matching vacuum jig, and then they mill the aluminium center section down to 150 microns thick.

2013_CERN_WKSHOP 056 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 058 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 078 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 079 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 061 (Large).jpg

A view looking both ways down the main corridor through the machine shop
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 068 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 069 (Large).jpg
The long counter area is the stores area.

Not sure about this machine? looks like a big bed mill?
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 070 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 071 (Large).jpg

This FP2LB is the same model as ours.. next to a nice FP3 I was interested in the tooling for the FP2LB
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 074 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 075 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 117 (Large).jpg
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 120 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 121 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 122 (Large).jpg

A high speed Aciera Drill press, and another bigger Aciera Drill Press. Makes a nice change from Fehlman I guess
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 106 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 110 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 107 (Large).jpg

I've heard of these Cazneuve lathes, never seen one before, but it was almost impossible to get much of a look at it.
2013_CERN_WKSHOP 052 (Large).jpg2013_CERN_WKSHOP 053 (Large).jpg

Still got metrology, sheet metal and electron beam welding to come.

To answer Michael_G's earlier question, the machines are pretty much exclusively euro, Swiss, German and French

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Not sure about this machine? looks like a big bed mill?

Isnt it a bed mill with a 4 and maybe 5ths axis?(and what looks like a wood dummy holder in the spindle...... of course they would use something much more advanced than wood )

Originally Posted by RayG

To answer Michael_G's earlier question, the machines are pretty much exclusively euro, Swiss, German and French

Their comparator is from Japan by the looks of it

Thanks for the pictures

Stuart

Originally Posted by RayG

One of the parts they make is a faraday shield that goes around the beam to stop the beam em radiation getting into the electronics, but without affecting the particles, so it's critical that this part be as thin as possible, to do this they machine one side and then flip it over into a precisely matching vacuum jig, and then they mill the aluminium center section down to 150 microns thick.

You know, some of us would have just bought an old picture frame, taken out the guts and put a sheet of Al foil in. But hey - that way works as well.

Michael

Thanks for the photos ray that's some serious tool #### there