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  1. #1
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    Default Macson Double Ended Grinder

    Hey all,

    I just purchased this 3 phase Macson Grinder, as I don't have a pedestal grinder, just a bench mount and I have been thinking of making a stand for my current grinder (to clear some bench space), but as this was $100 after fees etc. I thought I would risk the purchase and cross my fingers it is in working order (famous last words). It looks to be belt driven (the catalogue below says 2 v-belts), so I am thinking my main concerns will be bearings and motor (or the massive crack in the casting at the back of the machine that I can't see because they didn't take a picture of the back end, and I didn't inspect it).

    macson grinder.jpgmacson grinder2.jpgmacson grinder3.jpgmacson grinder4.jpg

    The listing states it is a 200mm wheel so 8".........surely not, but to me it visually looks much bigger than an 8" grinder (obviously things rarely look the size they actually are in pictures), I only found the listing shortly before it ended and have not had a chance to research too much, but I think I found a scanning of a McPhersons catalogue which shows it or a similar design (tool rests don't look to be original) http://archives.dcemulation.org/www....9-Grinding.pdf (fourth page down). This lists two models (2a & 3a) with a 12" and 14" wheel. Looking at the auction photos it looks like the wheels on it are in proportion to the machine, so does anyone know if they made a smaller one, or would you agree that it is actually a 12" or 14" and the guy doing the listing didn't have a tape measure with him? I have a 1966 McPhersons catalogue, but it is not shown in this, I am guessing by the link being MC1949-Grinder, that this machine would date to 1949-65, or did they continue to make them, but just not list them in the catalogue (my gut feeling is that it is probably more towards the 50's based on the fact that the base is cast and not sheet)?

    To be honest, I haven't yet had much exposure to older metalwork machinery (mainly buying older woodworking machinery), although I do have 2 Waldown drill presses (2M and the newer 3M, also Australian build), which I am very happy with the build quality. I more know of Macson as Barker/Macson (some earlier woodworking machines as a collaboration between L.S. Barker and Macson), so I may have made a hasty and unwise purchase, but I guess that's part of the risk that I took given the limited time to research.

    If you had any information to share on the machine (it would be great if anyone had specs on the weight, or have used one, I would really love to hear from you.

    Cheers,

    Camo


    "This Forum member has been certified 100% Troll free"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    9,088

    Default

    I'm betting on that being 12".
    Nice looking grinder. Sure doesnt look light though

    Stuart

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default

    It sure does look like a 350mm x 50 mm or 12" x 2" pedestal grinder. They were basically used as a metalfab shop grinder to dress rough edges, but could be used as wheel for drill bits and HSS lathe tool sharpening. You could have a fine wheel for sharpening and a rough one for snagging snagging your fab work.

    Given that theres no issues resulting from the crack you should be good to go, once you sort the 3 phase.

    If theres no Id plates to tell you it's sizing, open up the tool plate as wide as it will go and check the approx distance from tool plate edge to spindle center. it will be 150+ if its a 300mm grinder!

    Look at those wheels,some kind soul has dressed them for you.

    Grahame

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys for confirming my suspicions on the size being quoted incorrectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Given that theres no issues resulting from the crack you should be good to go, once you sort the 3 phase.
    Grahame, I need to use my emoticons, as far as I know it doesn't have a crack in the cast, just going with the worst case idea, based on the fact that there is no picture of the back of the machine.

    I am lucky enough to have 3 phase power, so running it will not be a problem, but I do wonder what the speed of the motor might be (I will leave it as 3 phase, but I guess if it isn't a slow speed motor, it should be easy to change to a single phase motor).



    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Look at those wheels,some kind soul has dressed them for you.

    Definitely happy about that!! Hopefully it is a good sign, one would think your not going to waste time doing that on a machine that doesn't work.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Newcastle NSW
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    Default Bearings, Bearings, Bearings

    Hi all,

    Well a quick update, now that it is home and a question for those who know bearings.

    I got it home and have fired up the motor (without load to check that it works), the first surprise was the size, turns out it is a 10" Machine (no markings, but based on the cast iron guards, there is no more room, certainly not enough to go to say 12"). My first response was disappointment, but now, I think it is probably more suited to the use that it will get in my workshop (I simply don't think I need a bigger grinder), I am just surprised this size was not listed in the catalogue. The second surprise, not dressed wheels, new wheels, both wheels are brand new (that was very nice of them).

    Now when you buy at an auction you have to expect something is going to be wrong, and I think I have found an issue (one of the bearings). Just lifting the shaft by hand I could feel significant play on one side, so I took everything off to get to the bearings. As with all things one side came off easily, and the other side I couldn't even get the main nut off (the side that had the play). I thought before I proceeded, I would find out what bearings were in them and determine if it was going to be a lost cause, it was a NLJ40 (40x80x18 self aligning double racer), sounded expensive, but I managed to find a guy on evilbay that I have dealt with before who happened to have one new old stock laying around (total cost $4, looks to have been stored well, no rust), if I need another it will cost me $40 at the bearing place.

    So all that was needed was to get the main nut off the other side (the thread had been flattened at the end). I finally got it off today, get to the bearing and NLJ40 right.....no 6208.

    I have spoken to the bearing shop and he has said the 6208 is the same size, but not self alligning and not double racer, he also suggested I could go with a sealed bearing or go with the new version of the NLJ40.

    So I am after some advice. Obviously I have a NLJ40, so I will probably put that in, but if the other bearing turns out to have collapsed (it actually looks good, but is untested), what would you do if it was your grinder. I am imagining that the self aligning is to assist in preventing damage due to pushing on the wheel? Is it OK to run one NLJ40 and one of the others on the other side? Is it worth the extra cost to go with the NLJ40?

    Below are some pictures (I really should have taken some before shots, but I got carried away pulling it apart). I don't think she will win any beauty contest, but she certainly looks to be solid.

    photo 1.jpgphoto 2.jpgphoto 5.jpg

    As you can see I have already taken a few things off. The air vents (cast iron), shrouds and all the stuff that gets me down to bearings, 6208 is already out, and just need to clean up.

    photo 3.jpg

    Obviously had two belts originally and is 2 speed

    photo 4.jpg

    The two shrouds and underneath them the cast cover for belt change.

    Thanks in advanced for any advice.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    it was a NLJ40 (40x80x18 self aligning double racer), sounded expensive, but I managed to find a guy on evilbay that I have dealt with before who happened to have one new old stock laying around (total cost $4, looks to have been stored well, no rust), if I need another it will cost me $40 at the bearing place.

    So all that was needed was to get the main nut off the other side (the thread had been flattened at the end). I finally got it off today, get to the bearing and NLJ40 right.....no 6208.

    I have spoken to the bearing shop and he has said the 6208 is the same size, but not self alligning and not double racer, he also suggested I could go with a sealed bearing or go with the new version of the NLJ40.
    Your bearing man must not know his bearings...

    A 40X80X18 double row self aligning is a 1208 bearing.. If you do get one, just keep in mind that if it has a suffix K after the number it may be a tapered bore variant.. Something to be aware of...

    NLJ40 is what Ransome & Marles (UK bearing manufacturer) called that bearing..
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Your bearing man must not know his bearings...

    A 40X80X18 double row self aligning is a 1208 bearing.. If you do get one, just keep in mind that if it has a suffix K after the number it may be a tapered bore variant.. Something to be aware of...

    NLJ40 is what Ransome & Marles (UK bearing manufacturer) called that bearing..
    Sorry RC,

    I should have explained better. The 1208 was what he was suggesting when I said "new version of the NLJ40". The 1208 will cost me $40. I think I already have my answer, based on the fact that the 6208 is obviously a replacement bearing (and not original and has failed), but I was wondering if it was a bad idea to go with basically the steel sealed version of the 6208, if it turns out that the other bearing (the NLJ40 on the other side) needs replacing, and then if I could run the new NLJ40 on one side and a 6208 on the other (as they have obviously been using it, or does this lead to the 6208 failing like it has), or is the 6208 bearing completely the wrong bearing for this purpose?

    The guy at the bearing place seems to be suggesting that newer versions of this type of double ended grinder would just have sealed bearings and not self aligning or double raced. This leads me to wonder if instead of paying the extra for the 1208 (in the event that I do need another bearing), can I get away with just a metal sealed 6208 (I think that is the ZZ). I don't know a lot about bearings (you can probably tell), so I am not too sure if there is a good reason why this machine should have double racing self aligning bearings, or if these bearings would have been just easily available to Macson at the time.

    Cheers,

    Camo

    P.S. Thanks for the heads up on the suffix K, just checked the one I picked up, no K to be seen (luckily)

  8. #8
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    near Rockhampton
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    Z means shielding.... ZZ shielded both sides... It is not sealed, just shielded..

    2RS means two rubber seals, that is the sealed version...

    ZZ would be more then adequate for that application as they are going to be sitting in a housing protected anyway...
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Z means shielding.... ZZ shielded both sides... It is not sealed, just shielded..

    2RS means two rubber seals, that is the sealed version...

    ZZ would be more then adequate for that application as they are going to be sitting in a housing protected anyway...
    Thanks again RC,

    Any opinions on if the double racer self aligning attribute that the NLJ40 has, is a necessity for this purpose. If I end up needing to replace the other NLJ40 am I just banking fool's gold by going with the 6208ZZ?

    Cheers,

    Camo

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    mid north coast NSW
    Posts
    92

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    If you had any information to share on the machine (it would be great if anyone had specs on the weight, or have used one, I would really love to hear from you.

    Cheers,

    Camo


    Just looked at my McPhersons catalogues the Macson 2a and 3a are in the 1949 and 1951 and not in the 1955! Went back to the 1937 Sydney catalogue with no result, then checked the Melbourne 1937 version and bingo their NEW 1a 10" and 2a 12" floor grinders! The base shape is the same but the tool rests aren't as heavy or as elaborate The 1a has 10"x 1 1/2" wheels 2hp motor, speed is given as 2090 rpm, no reference to two speeds!
    Hope this helps.
    Graeme

  11. #11
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    Jan 2011
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    Far West Wimmera
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    In a lot of cases a self adjusting bearing would be used on one side only but it depends on the reason for this type of bearing being fitted.

    Dean

  12. #12
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    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesmith View Post
    If you had any information to share on the machine (it would be great if anyone had specs on the weight, or have used one, I would really love to hear from you.

    Cheers,

    Camo


    Just looked at my McPhersons catalogues the Macson 2a and 3a are in the 1949 and 1951 and not in the 1955! Went back to the 1937 Sydney catalogue with no result, then checked the Melbourne 1937 version and bingo their NEW 1a 10" and 2a 12" floor grinders! The base shape is the same but the tool rests aren't as heavy or as elaborate The 1a has 10"x 1 1/2" wheels 2hp motor, speed is given as 2090 rpm, no reference to two speeds!
    Hope this helps.
    Graeme
    Graeme,

    Thanks for the info, 1937...wow, didn't think it would date back that far. Any chance you could scan the page for me.

    I haven't checked the motor plate yet, so it will be interesting to see if it is 2HP (I will check that tomorrow). The tool rests definitely aren't original.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    In a lot of cases a self adjusting bearing would be used on one side only but it depends on the reason for this type of bearing being fitted.


    Dean
    Interesting, the pulley is fairly centred, but it is slightly closer to the side with the self adjusting bearing, perhaps I am wrong and the 6208 is original?

    Cheers,

    Camo

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    Thanks again RC,

    Any opinions on if the double racer self aligning attribute that the NLJ40 has, is a necessity for this purpose. If I end up needing to replace the other NLJ40 am I just banking fool's gold by going with the 6208ZZ?

    Cheers,

    Camo
    The use of an adjustable bearing seems confusing to me in this situation but I don't have any experience with repairing equipment this old. I would have thought there was no need for one in a solid framed housing with machined bearing housings.

    Some pictures showing the complete bearing/shaft/housing layout may help.

    Dean

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    The use of an adjustable bearing seems confusing to me in this situation but I don't have any experience with repairing equipment this old. I would have thought there was no need for one in a solid framed housing with machined bearing housings.

    Some pictures showing the complete bearing/shaft/housing layout may help.

    Dean
    Hi Dean,

    Thanks for your input. Below are some pictures, hopefully with the detail you are referring to, and a diagram of the shaft.

    shaft.jpgclose 2.jpgclose 1.jpgclose 3.jpg

    Seems to be a fairly straight forward setup to me, (if not for the question of what bearing). The pulley is actually more centred than I thought, so that blows the theory of the adjustable bearing being on the side closest to the pulley. It is one single shaft machined down in steps, on the right side there is threading that I think goes all the way under the bearing, but not sure (haven't pulled that bearing off as that is the one that seems fine), a collet screws onto this and sits up against the outer edge of the bearing. The other has no thread and no collet. After the dust cap is bolted on (steal about 6mm thick, you can see the threads in the picture), another collet is added to the shaft on both sided which are secured to the shaft using allen key.

    I am basically making the assumption that the NJL40 is the original bearing (due to the age of the bearing, and the fact that given the choice, no one is going to put this bearing in over a cheaper option), and the 6208 has been placed on the other side when someone replaced the other NJL40, but it looks like perhaps I can't be sure of that.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  15. #15
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    No doubt it would have been bored at the same setting when made, do not need two self aligning bearings in there...

    If it was made today it would only have just a couple of 6208's in it....cheapest they could get no doubt...

    It is only a pedestal grinder... I would just put a 6208-2RS in there...
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

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