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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    How to get the wheel at the correct height ie just touching the diamond. I tried a tally Ho like you do when touching off the job but it didn't work.

    Using an ally tube I have traced the noise to the 2 main suction (and presumably discharge depending on the table direction) lines. The rotary valve that that go into, and the ram hoses come out of) doesn't seem to be making the noise, the worse vibration is in the steel lines themselves. I doubt its air in there, I bless the system again as per the book, which should expell air out of the suction safety valves, not sure if it did but it did make "that" noise. I wonder if the suction valves have problems.

    Cheers,
    Ew

    Ahh, ok i use a couple of strategies, but normally don't bother about being too careful when touching off on the diamond. The first is if it the works is in a jig is to you the difference in height between the work and the dresser, that way I can get back to the same spot on the work within about 5-10um. But normally I just go by sound, I position the wheel and dresser where I want them, and slowly manually lower the wheel onto the dresser with the wheel running until I can hear it touching the diamond. From the sound of diamond on the wheel I can get a good indication of how much I need to dress.

    -Josh

  2. #47
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    I just run the wheel down till it gets close, then zip it down quickly via the 0.0001 feed on my J&S 540...
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  3. #48
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    Ewan out of curiosity, what cross feed were you using? I'm hesitant to even masquerade anything I say as "advice", I've learnt a little of what works on my little grinder and bumble my way through things, but it's little more than a toy compared to what you, Ray/Josh etc are using. However for what it's worth it seemed to me based on the video and your comments about the wheel wear pattern and not being able to grind the whole chuck, that either the cross feed was too great and/or the down feed was too high. You could try reducing one or the other ie with that much down feed you'll need less cross feed, or with that much cross feed you'll need to reduce the depth. Take that for what it's worth ie 9/10ths of squat-all, but that's my 2 cents.

    On the other hand the finish looked great! I find myself using 46 grade wheels almost exclusively (I have a choice of 46 or 60). Again, possibly not relevant for your grinder, but I thought I'd throw it out there for what it's worth.

    Pete

    BTW, you did very well to get it to this stage so quickly. I'd expected it to take much longer from what you said to get to this stage. I s uspect some long days/nights went in to it

  4. #49
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    Ewan,

    I have some stuff on the grinder atm, I'll do a video for you of my standard dressing practice if you like.. anything else you might like to see?

    -Josh

  5. #50
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    Hi Pete,
    I'll take all I can get right now.

    In the vid its a 38a46, since its ms I'm sure not going to complain about the finish. The same wheel today cleaned up one of my gauge stands, I can almost make my face out in the reflection.
    Cross feed for the chuck cleanup, I was trying it at about .020 with .0005" doc, but the wheel only made it half way before it stopped cutting. In the end it was the same doc but with a feed of maybe .300". You can see the lines in the chuck in the right light. Bad dress I guess. But at least it is flat now.....

    The noise is the pump loading up, if I loosen the safety suction valves right off it goes away but the table speed slows down as there is no back pressure (well I'm guessing that's what happens) until last week the sum total of my hydraulic knowledge was that it used oil, pump and rams.....learning a lot here.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian View Post
    Ewan,

    I have some stuff on the grinder atm, I'll do a video for you of my standard dressing practice if you like.. anything else you might like to see?

    -Josh
    Josh,
    That would be great, I think at this stage dressing is my main issue, besides this noise...

    Cheers
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abratool View Post
    Agree with RC
    Grade 60 will be a bit fine.
    On my Churchill 18" by 6" Surface Grinder a 38A(white) Grade 46 K is the best for most work.
    I have used a softer wheel 46 H for grinding long 18" hardened pieces of High Speed Steel.
    A new wheel for my machine is 7" dia by 1/2" wide it will act "softer" as wheel diameter is reduced by dressing over time. (Lower peripheral speed)
    As RC mentioned dressing technique also plays a big part in performance. A rapid cross traverse of the diamond dresser or truer will give a more free cutting wheel. Also best to use the diamond wet (with coolant)
    Slow reciprocating table speed will also make the wheel act harder & increasing the reciprocating table speed will make the wheel act softer & more free cutting on hardened materials.
    regards
    Bruce
    ps Turning back time 50 yrs to the AWA Toolroom Ashfield NSW, we used a Norton grade 120 P "Orange Wheel" for form grinding in die work, where a sharp corner was needed. Anyone know where to get hold of these wheels?

    coincendentlly I have a Churchill Surface grinder and also knew of the AWA tool room at Ashfield. I have a T&C grinder from there, almost got the Aceira Mill too.

    Apologies for OT.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    The noise is the pump loading up, if I loosen the safety suction valves right off it goes away but the table speed slows down as there is no back pressure (well I'm guessing that's what happens) until last week the sum total of my hydraulic knowledge was that it used oil, pump and rams.....learning a lot here.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    Had a chance to watch the latest video....

    Sounds to me to be the hydraulic pump making that noise...

    I would be checking the pump out..... Probably a gear pump, but could also be a vane pump.... Check suction is not restricted or has an air leak on the suction side..

    Check oil levels which I know you have already done
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Josh,
    That would be great, I think at this stage dressing is my main issue, besides this noise...

    Cheers
    Ew

    Sorry for the crappy video, the good camera is missing so I used my phone with poor effect but either way the vid is uploading see here in about 30mins
    Herless MPS350-AH - Wheel Dressing - YouTube

    -Josh

  10. #55
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    Its a vane pump RC. I'll put a few images from the manual on this. Still doesn't make heaps of sense to me.
    I don't think it is sucking air, only cause there is no air coming out the return, which there was when bleeding. If i try to stop the table moving it makes the same sound, so definitely a problem when the pump gets loaded.

    Plenty of oil....everywhere. I accidentally wound the adjuster on one of the suction valved right out whilst it was running. The stream of oil that shot out was aimed beautifully straight out the back of the machine an went all over everything......

    What can happen to a vane pump to make noises like that? Do i even want to know?

    Cheers,
    Ew
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    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian View Post
    Sorry for the crappy video, the good camera is missing so I used my phone with poor effect but either way the vid is uploading see here in about 30mins
    Herless MPS350-AH - Wheel Dressing - YouTube

    -Josh
    Thanks Josh, big help. I havn't been able to hear the diamond touch so easily as i have had the coolant on and all you can hear is the "frying" sound you get. I also notice you dress dry, for no other reason than dust control i'd rather dress wet. You machine sure is quiet, just the tick of the direction change lever......

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  12. #57
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    Well it is more complicated then I expected for a 1950's machine..

    Variable displacement vane pump....

    Firstly the noise could very well be normal...

    The noise is either coming from the pump or from a valve... It is a chattering noise.. But then hydraulic systems are always noisy things...

    I see the pump has a smaller priming pump for the main pump... I suspect this is to make sure the main pump (which I see more as a metering unit) does not get starved of oil..

    I would be inclined to use it as is... Reason being, even if the pump is chattering from wear there is nothing you can do about it.... The only repair is replacement...

    Just check there are no restrictions on the inlet side and use it...
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  13. #58
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    Thanks RC, glad you can make sense of how it works. To me there is an awfull lot going on, I need to pull things like this apart to see how they work......not such a good idea with this.

    I'll pull the 3? Intake lines off and make sure they are clear. I cleaned the pickups before so they should be ok. Really need to make a box for Michael G's grinder too....its hard to do anything else when there is a new distraction in the shed.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Thanks RC, glad you can make sense of how it works. To me there is an awfull lot going on, I need to pull things like this apart to see how they work......not such a good idea with this.

    I'll pull the 3? Intake lines off and make sure they are clear. I cleaned the pickups before so they should be ok. Really need to make a box for Michael G's grinder too....its hard to do anything else when there is a new distraction in the shed.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    So my guess the pump is overloading on return strokes how did you go adjusting the return overload valve, the one that effects table softness?

  15. #60
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    Default Grinding Wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Bruce I'm also after some 6" wheels for my little Hercus, and probably some 5" wheels for the T&C grinder, but I need to check its arbor size. So far the only source I've found is Enco in the US. If you don't have any luck finding any locally, have a look at Enco's site and if there's something there suitable I could always order it for you and you could swing past my place to collect it.

    Pete
    Pete

    I have only a few wheels for the surface grinder, purchased them about 20 or so years ago.
    They have done a fair bit of work, & last a long time. The life of grinding wheels & their metal removal rates is quite amazing, particularly when care is taken.
    Thanks for the offer, however I get my wheels from Abrasiflex Australia, & as mentioned will not be needing any for a long time.
    My life & past business was involved with grinding, & supply of same products, primarily coated abrasives.
    There are just a lot of variables in grinding practice, but when optimum conditions are established, all is then good.
    regards
    Bruce

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