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Thread: Blohm HFS6 surface grinder
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24th Jul 2013, 01:41 AM #16
Hi Ewan,
That downfeed arrangement looks very familiar, on the Herless it's a tiny actuator that drives the ratchet mechanism the number of teeth determined by the actuator travel, this happens at the end of each Y axis travel, the same time that the Y axis reverses. I should take a video, and you'll see it's very similar to the Blohm.
I'm not sure when Stepper motors became popular, but, in 1958, i'd think it's more likely to have been a solenoid. Of course you only need down, automatic up-feed wouldn't be much in demand.
Regards
Ray
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24th Jul 2013, 02:50 PM #17Golden Member
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.... "Nation gummed oil deposits. It is the sea" ..... classic.
The translation is like some kind of weird poetry.
If you have the original German manual exert then post it up.
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24th Jul 2013, 04:49 PM #18
The table ( which runs on rollers) , and is driven back and forward by the rack, sits on the saddle which has inverted V ways that are lubricated from a reservoir in the table and oil wicks run down to the saddle.
The reservoir contains way oil, and lubricates the rollers, I can't see how you would run it dry and still get lubrication to the saddle ways.
Bear in mind this is a roller version of the Cincinnati No 2, and the ball slide version might well be different.
So the short answer is, now I'm confused... I wouldn't get too fussed about grinding dust, it mostly seems to end washed away with the coolant, judging by the amount that ends up in the coolant tank. I fitted 20u filters on the coolant pump outlet line going to the grinding head and a lot seems to end up there as well...
Here is the details of the coolant filtration system I installed on the Herless.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/co...6/#post1346856
I had a look underneath the Herless table, and there isn't any evidence of grinding dust getting stuck to the way oil...
Regards
Ray
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24th Jul 2013, 08:37 PM #19
Josh, the brochure i have is in French, the problem is the edges are cut of the page hence the appalling translation.
Ray, thanks for the link. What i guess i need is either some sheet filter material, or some "donuts" to fit on the filter. The tank has 2 weirs, and the overflow only happens at either the middle or edges of the weirs (middle for one and edges for the other) so i'll probably put magnets at the overflow points.
You mention a 20u filter, but i don't see a filter as such (unless its that orange ring?) but i do like the magnets.
Regarding lubing the ways i cleaned the old grease off this arvo, there did not seem to be any grit in it. I think another message to Phil might be an idea.
Cheers,
Ew
Edit, a filter like this is what i think i need....just have to check the size 5 X 5 Micron Poly Spun Sediment Water Filter Cartridges 2 2ga | eBay1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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24th Jul 2013, 08:44 PM #20
Pete,
I would have liked to have done this, but since it hasn't been in service for 6 years i was worried about the state of the grease on the ways. I am also glad i pulled the feed units off as the oil seals are as hard as plastic and cracked. They would have leaked everywhere if i tried to add oil. Other than that its just a clean of the sump and oil pickups, replace the spindle oil (and fix the tank which is cracked, its stainless i think).
I'm certainly not going to pull the saddle off, that means disconnecting hydraulics, leadscrew etc. I'm already concerned about bleeding the hydraulics as it is.....
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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24th Jul 2013, 09:51 PM #21Most Valued Member
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Oh wow, it's been that long since it was run! Ok fair enough then, I wouldn't have thought that type of hydraulic design should give you too much grief, but never worked on it myself of course.
Good luck.
Pete
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25th Jul 2013, 10:29 PM #22
Well she runs......
I finished cleaning out the sump and pickups today, and repaired the spindle oil tank. Turns out the oil supplied was the right stuff and the right amounts, bonus!
I checked the spindle for run out, maybe a 1/4 of a graduation on the millimess (thats 1um grads) the does seem to be about 3um play in it though, and i'm thinking it will get worse when warm? Maybe not....
But on the subject of warm, i wonder if it would be a good idea to get a fish tank heater and put it in the spindle oil tank for winter, to have the oil pre-heated before use. I would imagine it would take a while for the 20l to heat up under use.
Anyway, first impressions are she is really really quiet, amazingly actually. With oil pump, hydraulic pump, spindle and y feed motor running you could easily talk at normal volume around her.
Bad news is the seals at the ends of the ram are hard, and leaking pretty bad. Not so much at lower speeds but lots at high speeds. Lucky i decided to test her before putting the table back on......
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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28th Jul 2013, 01:10 AM #23
I have ordered some ram seals and are told they should be here Monday...famous last words!
I'm still unsure of whether the ways should be dry or greased. I can only hope Blohm get back to me, i don't really want to fork out the $150 for a PDF manual if i can avoid it.
Anyway, being at a standstill, i had noticed one of the hubs was missing its retaining "bung" Aha! something to do.....
Without the bung the hub will not be pulled off the spindle taper when the retaining bolt is removed.
I also threw in a pic of the adjustable pin spanner that came with the machine. A very simple and effective solution.
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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28th Jul 2013, 01:30 AM #24
Hi Ewan,
I like that pin spanner! that's now on my todo list.
Back to the ball way lubrication question,
Does the automatic oiler feed oil anywhere near there? If so I'd be just using oil lubrication rather than grease. The logic being. that if grease is contaminated by grinding dust it would tend to stay there and accumulate, whereas oil would tend to wash away the grinding dust. Just guessing...
Regards
Ra,
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28th Jul 2013, 01:37 AM #25
Hi Ray,
No oil gets anywhere near the X or Y ways, only the Z gets oiled.
I'm still thinking they were meant to be dry. If that is the case i should pull the saddle off and clean the Y ways too.
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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28th Jul 2013, 04:56 AM #26Philomath in training
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30th Jul 2013, 04:09 PM #27Most Valued Member
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I'd be very surprised if those ways were run dry
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31st Jul 2013, 05:40 PM #28Senior Member
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I tend to agree, I know they run dry on my T&C grinder but it does not do the cycles the surface grinder would.
The other thing to consider with ball ways, is when moving. The table needs to be locked and in a way to not allow it to lift even fractionally. I have actually wedged T&C grinder tables up slightly to provent damage.
great looking grinder.
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1st Aug 2013, 01:58 AM #29
All those in favor of greased balls (hehe) get a gold star.....RC and i loose out. I caved in and bought the manual online. Greased it is.
On Monday i picked up the new ram seals, got them in, greased the rollers and got the table back on. The results: Blohm - YouTube
The bad news is the new ram seals made no difference to the leaks (well they did until the table was on, the extra weight i guess), so today i pulled the table back off, and as i suspected the nuts that "squash" the seal were bottoming out before doing enough. Some machined packing washers and now it seems to be fine.
I skimmed the chuck, faster than i would have liked to, but it came out ok. I've got the choice of 32A60J and 38A46J or 60J wheels to use (well that or 39c/37c), but neither would hold their dress for long enough to do the whole table with a small X feed. I guess i need a harder wheel.
I did a 5 corner test this evening, its within 3um, but i'm calling it better than that, as the block that was the smallest moved and after repositioning, grinding and then removing i noticed it had a tiny burr on the back....
The other thing i don't like is the squeal of the hydraulics when the table changes direction. There is an overload valve for "setting a soft table reversal" i wonder if it needs adjusting/fixing?
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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1st Aug 2013, 02:23 AM #30
Hi Ewan,
Nice work getting the Blohm running, I agree with your thoughts that the hydraulics shouldn't be making that noise, for comparison here's how our's sounds Grinding the bevel - YouTube
That's grinding a batch of M2 plane blades.
Greased huh? would never have thought it. I was in favour of oil.
Regards
Ray
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