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  1. #1
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    Default More from Mannheim - Hommel Werke's Height Micrometer

    About four weeks ago Pete F sent me an email advising me that there was a cheap Hommel height mic on German Ebay. Peter had purchased a similar Hommel mic not long ago and reckoned I should be interested.

    Hommel Werke Höhenmikrometer 0 300mm Teilung 0 005mm | eBay

    I was and unlike me, I bought it without enquiring about its condition. Communication was a touch difficult, I had Navina, my German colleague, exchange a few emails with the seller but I never asked whether the device was decorated with scratched, gouged or engraved identification marks. Nor did I ask whether there were any other signs of damage or abuse. I kept saying to myself, so what, it was cheap.

    It wasn't and there weren't. Other than one contact point where the paint had been rubbed, the grey wrinkle finish was close to perfect. The plated surfaces were flawless.

    Sadly the black painted maple case wasn't in the same condition.( And probably the reason why the mic was in good nick!) The micrometer, boxed, weighed about 25 kilos. There was a token layer of bubble wrap around the case and it was placed inside a cardboard box.

    The photos tell the sad story. I've got a bit of woodwork ahead of me.

    Hommel made some nice gear. This beauty weighed 85 kilos. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/mo...5/#post1424435

    BT
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Very nice Bob, and a bargain to boot.
    Rare Hommel Werke Height Transfer Gauge Base 3880 DBP | eBay

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  3. #3
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    Hi BT,
    Bargain!
    Is the thumb wheel on the base a lock?
    How do set zero?
    Graduated in 0.005mm?
    Shame about the box. If I recall correctly I read some where about my Mitutoyo case "this case is not a transport case" or something along those lines.

    Stuart

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    Yes the knob at the base is to lock the spindle. I'm not sure what you mean by setting "zero" but if you mean recalibrating it's done by loosening a grub screw in the vernier knob, adjusting one of the standards to a known height (eg comparing to an accurate gauge block) and then setting the verier for the correct reading.

  5. #5
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    I haven't had a serious fiddle with the thing yet Stu. From my initial observations, the minimum height measurable is 5mm, the thickness of the base "ring". Pete may have the same model, if so, he's probably done more fiddling.

    As far as using the Hommmel goes I imagine if I had a height to measure, I'd use my height vernier fitted with a tenth DTI, zero the DTI on the object to be measured then re-zero the indicator on the appropriate ring on the Hommel. The Mitutoyo height vernier measures in increments of 0.02mm, the Hommel, 0.005. I'm not sure which model Mitutoyo Height Master you have Stu, but if it's an old model from around 1980, it will probably measure either 2.5um or 1um.

    I do have some metric gauge blocks. I'll see how I go tomorrow comparing them with the Hommel for accuracy.

    I had a look through some of my catalogues for transfer stands. They look to my uneducated eye to simply be a quicker, more convenient way of zeroing an indicator than using a height gauge or a magnetic stand.

    And Ew, it was looking at the Israeli's offering that made me realise how cheap this one was.

    BT

    Here's a nice Brown and Sharpe Hite-Chek.

  6. #6
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    Yes we are talking about the same thing, comparing with a gage block. There's no lock on the Mitutoyo. The 0 (reference ring Mit call it) is moved to set zero, though I think you can move the thimble also but I havent needed to try that yet.

    I havent been able to find the "not for transport" ref, maybe I'm making it up. One corner of the box for my raiser block has had the glue broken like yours. The Mit weighs in at 23kgs, they arent the easiest things to move about.(one of the reasons I'd like to take over one of the bedrooms as then I would be happier leaving it out.....shhhhh)

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f65/272912d1371378542-metrology-amateurs-mhga.jpg


    http://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...teurs-mhgb.jpg

    The Mitutoyo goes to 0.00001" (0.254 micron).

    The reason I bought that shockingly rusted height gage was for use as a comparator as the fine adjustment is done from the base which is much better than my Mitutoyo height gage that to steal Phils line is a soggy noodle when you are trying to zero a 1/10th DTI on it up at 300mm.

    How high is the Hite-Chek? 450mm? looks far more solid.

    Stuart

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Yes we are talking about the same thing, comparing with a gage block. There's no lock on the Mitutoyo. The 0 (reference ring Mit call it) is moved to set zero, though I think you can move the thimble also but I havent needed to try that yet.

    I havent been able to find the "not for transport" ref, maybe I'm making it up. One corner of the box for my raiser block has had the glue broken like yours. The Mit weighs in at 23kgs, they arent the easiest things to move about.(one of the reasons I'd like to take over one of the bedrooms as then I would be happier leaving it out.....shhhhh)

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f65/272912d1371378542-metrology-amateurs-mhga.jpg


    http://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...teurs-mhgb.jpg

    The Mitutoyo goes to 0.00001" (0.254 micron).

    The reason I bought that shockingly rusted height gage was for use as a comparator as the fine adjustment is done from the base which is much better than my Mitutoyo height gage that to steal Phils line is a soggy noodle when you are trying to zero a 1/10th DTI on it up at 300mm.

    How high is the Hite-Chek? 450mm? looks far more solid.

    Stuart
    Stu,

    I haven't been ignoring you . I scoured my catalogue collection and found what I was after in a 1968 Don Richetts Company publication. The Hite-Chek above is an 18 inch model and cost $98 forty five years ago. Brown and Sharpe's 12 inch Hite-Icator with its super-speed tenth micrometer would have set you back 575 bucks. Your Mitutoyo, either a 515-102 or a 515-152, and capable of finer measurement, cost less. $550.

    BT

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    Hi BT,
    Thanks. $575 thats some real money, about 9 weeks on average wage then. About 2 days now.
    I'm watching to see how you get on with the box.(though I guess we arent allowed that sort of thing here lol)

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Hi BT,
    Thanks. $575 thats some real money, about 9 weeks on average wage then. About 2 days now.
    I'm watching to see how you get on with the box.(though I guess we arent allowed that sort of thing here lol)

    Stuart
    I might be able to tackle the box next weekend Stu. I have a woodie bench that I haven't seen for a few years. I've moved the Tough drill and the dismantled Tough woodie lathe off the bench. Still to go is the 8 inch Record vice that I lifted up onto the bench when I was younger. Might have to set up a chain block, a pussyish thing I know but no point dropping a disc being a hero.

    Where do you post a couple of photos showing repairs to an exploded box if not here?

    BT

  10. #10
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    G'day gents,

    Firstly, once again Bob you have scored well. Very nice piece of kit indeed.

    But your purchase has awakened a question that has bothered me at times.

    I have been attempting to determine whether or not I need a Height Micrometer or its equivalent name in terms of use on the granite surface plate coming over to me from Phil Fehring.

    Correct me if I have it wrong, but I understand that the need for one of these devices is to provide an accurate height reference from which to operate - particularly if one is marking out or checking dimensions on a workpiece using a height gauge with DTI, scriber etc.

    A couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a Trimos mini-Vertical (TVM 301) electronic height gauge here in Perth (one of only two or three items I have been able to purchase here in the West) which measures 0-300mm to a tolerance of 0.001mm (well the display reads that and inches too).

    To be honest, I have no ability to check its accuracy unless or until I purchase a set of gauge blocks of sufficient accuracy to make such a determination possible and that seemingly only really possible in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. So for the foreseeable future, measuring to the nearest 0.01mm will be sufficient for my needs and should be well within the safe workshop tolerance of this device.

    I am able to set up a stylus or other attachments onto this height gauge, so I am not limited in what I can do as far as I can see.

    So the question is: Is there any value in obtaining a Mitutoyo/Hommel/Starret etc Height micrometer to use on my surface plate?

    To be honest, I would find it hard to justify the funds for such a purchase given what I already have for such a task.

    Am I missing something in terms of the potential use of such a measuring tool that cannot be accomplished by what I already have or have I managed to obtain something which does all the same - albeit with less of the classic methodology?

    Thanking you in advance for your wisdom and advice.



    Quentin

  11. #11
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    Do you need one? Do you need a lathe? Do you need a mill? Do you need a surface plate? Do you need a autocollimator? So it goes on. Only you know the answer to those questions. For some people it will be yes to all the above, others will get by just fine without any of them. The classic "how long is a piece of string". In this case, if you need to do extremely accurate comparative measurements using a mechanical or electronic indicator, then yes you will need a master height gauge. If not, then no you won't. I'd suggest for most people's needs it will be the latter.

    Pete

  12. #12
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    I wouldn't be seeking much advice and wisdom from me Quentin.

    The Hommel was really a purchase of opportunity not necessity. The majority of work I do could probably be executed with a hacksaw, a file and a wooden ruler. On the rare occasions that elevated accuracy has been called for, the 0.001" height gauge I have has been fine. The accuracy involved incorporates scribed lines, centre punching and a wiggler for alignment. Not too much accuracy there.

    If the Hommel works as it should, it should provide me with the ability to measure heights to a greater degree of accuracy. Not toolroom, controlled environment accuracy but a level more appropriate to my working conditions. The Hommel has 0.005mm graduations not the tenths of Stu's Mitutoyo. I don't know how often I would use the thing, not often I imagine.

    Now the Trimos is in another league. Makes the Höhenmikrometer look like an anvil. Maybe a dozy suggestion but would a micrometer standard suffice for checking the device's accuracy?

    For anyone else interested in Quentin's Trimos, here's a link - TVM

    The Swiss do make some nice gear.

    Bob.

  13. #13
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    Really two different devices, both are nice, but a little like comparing apples with oranges. The TVM is a direct reading measurement device, the height micrometer a comparative device. Personally, as a rule I find I can measure a surface far more accurately with a dial indicator of some description and comparing it to another, rather than trying to directly read a measurement. The dial indicator eliminates the possibility of errors due to differences in measurement force that may occur with many direct reading instruments.

    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Really two different devices, both are nice, but a little like comparing apples with oranges. The TVM is a direct reading measurement device, the height micrometer a comparative device. Personally, as a rule I find I can measure a surface far more accurately with a dial indicator of some description and comparing it to another, rather than trying to directly read a measurement. The dial indicator eliminates the possibility of errors due to differences in measurement force that may occur with many direct reading instruments.

    Pete
    True. People forget that while these digital devices display to say 10's of microns the uncertainty of the measurement may be several times that. Digital calipers spring to mind.
    I have a 192 series Mitutoyo digital height gauge with the electronic probe (another one of those "because the opportunity is there" purchases), and find that most times I use it with the scriber as a mark out device rather than measuring with the electronic probe, but if I really wanted to get accurate I would be using it with a DTI and slips rather than the probe.

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post

    Sadly the black painted maple case wasn't in the same condition.( And probably the reason why the mic was in good nick!) The micrometer, boxed, weighed about 25 kilos. There was a token layer of bubble wrap around the case and it was placed inside a cardboard box.

    The photos tell the sad story. I've got a bit of woodwork ahead of me.
    Bob, you are one up on me. The previous weekend I spent making up a new lid for a box of pin gauges (the seller strangely forgot to mention that the lid was missing), and a new box for some metric broaches as the box was in splinters by the time it got to me. At least you have all the bits. Everytime I have to make up a box like that I start thinking about making up a finger joint jig for the table saw...

    Michael

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