Thread: A "make Lemonade" moment (I bought a lemon)

Having long admired the 3D tasters that some members have I lashed out and bought one on German Ebay. However, when it arrived it became apparent that I'd bought a lemon. The seller even managed to slug me extra for the paypal fees. Sadly I'd already left feedback, so there is no redress for me. However, I'm pretty sure that he has no father!

The ad looked alright - even said comes with original packaging (must have been looked after right?). This is what the packaging looked like after it had been posted -
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The foam tray had been slid in and then just taped in place. The actual item looked like this -
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Not too bad, although the grubscrews which should have been there had been replaced with SHCS. This was visible in the ad, so I was expecting to have to replace these. What was not shown was the damage to the bottom of the unit.
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Someone had gone in with a centre punch to unscrew the plug and the lip for the rubber boot (missing) had also been damaged. As you can see from the second photo, the dial was reading something way off, so something was amiss. At this stage I was thinking that I'd blown my money. The next thought was along the lines of "Well, if it's knackered, I may as well see how one works". (Or in other words, "lemonade anyone?")

The unit has 3 distinct parts and is surprisingly uncomplicated. The spindle should be held on to a small spigot on the top of the unit with 4 grubscrews and a SHCS. The grubscrews adjust the radial position of the spindle with respect to the measuring probe. By backing them off and then undoing the SHCS in the top of the spindle, the spindle can be removed. Just think - if a guy wanted to gain a little bit more headroom he could take the spindle off and shorten it easily. (or even make up an ISO30 spindle and mount it direct).
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The next part I removed was the clock part. There are 4 grub screws around the perimeter of the dial. Back those off and the clock will just slide out. If you look carefully at the back of the clock there is a little steel pin. This fits into a slot in the body. When a part inside moves, the pin is moved and so the dial moves (I've still to see whether there is a part missing here, but the principle works). I also took the opportunity to see how the crystal attaches. There is a spring clip that runs around the perimeter with a notch. Slip in a small screwdriver or pointed object and the circlip will come out. The crystal is plastic, 1.15mm thick. It backs onto an O ring. Everything on this unit was very oily - I don't know whether this was deliberate or has just happened over the years.
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Last was the internals. Unscrewing the plug at the bottom, the spindle that the probe screws into came out. Notice the ball on top. This fits into the black part (next picture) which has a cone in it. If the probe is pushed up, the black bit moves up. If the probe is pushed to one side, because of the cone, the black part will also move up. This movement of course is what moves the pin and hence the dial. Pushing the black part down is a spring. The black part is a close fit in the Haimer body. In this one it was liberally oiled which I'm not sure it should have been (it was very slow to move - perhaps it should be dry lubed)
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The spring seems to be the main problem though -
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It seems to be comparably weak and certainly with the shape it is in, does not look like a high precision German spring. I suspect that the seller decided to take it apart for some reason, could not get it working and so put it back together with any old parts, put it in the box from the replacement and sold it to a passing sucker.

However, having looked inside I think it can be fixed. I'm going to see if I can get some information from Haimer (and perhaps the right spring) and who knows - lemon meringue pie?

Michael

Hi Michael,
Bugger. But thanks for the look inside.
I hope you are at least going to put him through the paypal wringer?
At least Bob will be happy

Stuart

Hi Michael,

It looks repairable, at first sight at least... and it's a quality brand so parts and information should be available.

The lemonade could end up being quite TASTY... ( sorry! )

Regards
Ray

Happy that I've now seen inside a Taster. Unhappy that it has to be as a result of Michael's misfortune.

Frans Haimer was awarded patent number 5,365,673 back in 1994 for the device. A search will provide a sectional drawing showing the spring and its location along with a verbose description of the device's workings. Michael's documented dissection has provided clarity. Thank you Michael.

Christian Groves has a Taster. I have an idea he was visiting Germany after a stint in Norway. He may have purchased his in Germany. He may be in a position to help.

BT

I must admit that one of the prime motivations for disassembly was because I was interested as to how they worked and thought that others may be too.
The spring seems to be the main thing. If there is a Taster owner or two out there with steady hands I would be interested to see if they can get a spring rate for me. If you position the Taster over a set of digital scales and push down so that the dial shows 1 mm vertical deflection, the scale should show a reading that I can compare my spring to. The spring seems critical to correct operation of the unit. Too weak and there is no restoring force; too strong and readings will be influenced by the restoring force.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

I must admit that one of the prime motivations for disassembly was because I was interested as to how they worked and thought that others may be too.
The spring seems to be the main thing. If there is a Taster owner or two out there with steady hands I would be interested to see if they can get a spring rate for me. If you position the Taster over a set of digital scales and push down so that the dial shows 1 mm vertical deflection, the scale should show a reading that I can compare my spring to. The spring seems critical to correct operation of the unit. Too weak and there is no restoring force; too strong and readings will be influenced by the restoring force.

Michael

A lack of steadiness will be overcome by mounting the Taster in the mill's spindle. The accuracy of the scales might be questionable. My Correx force gauge only measures from 0 to 15 grams. The analogue Soehnle kitchen scales will fit under the stylus on the mill so if you can wait till this evening I should be able to provide a reading. Fiddling around with the taster and the scales while I'm eating my breakfast suggests a force of about 200 grams.


BT

edit - I just slipped up to the shed. 220 grams. I'll post some snapshots later.

It's now later. More like 215 than 220. Winding the stylus up to a smudge over 2mm results in a increase of force on the spring.

Just one question Michael, the Taster did come with a stylus?

Hello Michael and Bob,

I'm back from Norway. I didn't go to Germany this time. I got my Taster from Haimer in Germany. My mother in-law set up an account with them. They probably didn't have too many 76 grandmothers on their books ). In my first contact with them they saw that I was from Australia and passed me to the local distributor but once I clarified that I was physically in Germany (I was at the time) they were good to deal with. They should be able to help you with parts.

I measured my 3D Taster NG on a set of digital scales holding the taster in the mill. I moved it until 1mm was showing and the digital scale showed between 248 and 251 grams. So I guess it's rated for 250gm.

Bob: Just following up on your email regarding adjusting the bevel when it doesn't return to zero. I tested my Taster on a couple of gauge blocks and the reading was accurate enough for me. i.e. on a 1.06mm gauge block the DRO on the mill read between 1.0592 and 1.0617.

Christian

Originally Posted by CGroves

Hello Michael and Bob,

I'm back from Norway. I didn't go to Germany this time. I got my Taster from Haimer in Germany. My mother in-law set up an account with them. They probably didn't have too many 76 grandmothers on their books ). In my first contact with them they saw that I was from Australia and passed me to the local distributor but once I clarified that I was physically in Germany (I was at the time) they were good to deal with. They should be able to help you with parts.

I measured my 3D Taster NG on a set of digital scales holding the taster in the mill. I moved it until 1mm was showing and the digital scale showed between 248 and 251 grams. So I guess it's rated for 250gm.

Bob: Just following up on your email regarding adjusting the bevel when it doesn't return to zero. I tested my Taster on a couple of gauge blocks and the reading was accurate enough for me. i.e. on a 1.06mm gauge block the DRO on the mill read between 1.0592 and 1.0617.

Christian

Bloody Swiss scales. I'll have my wife ramp up the butter when she makes her next cake.

German efficiency - after sending off an email last night I had the local agent phone today. He explained that all repairs are done in Germany and a taster should be treated as a disposable device as by the time the parts, labour and transport costs are added in it is cheaper to buy a new one for $500 to $600.
Parts are not held in Australia except for probes, and again they are expensive. He will look for repair instructions for me though. Although the spring is apparently quite light, the oil should not be as thick as it is. Sewing machine oil has been suggested.
Thanks to Christian and Bob for the spring information. With that I should be able to see if I have the right spring and replace it if needs be.

Michael

On edit. It did not come with a stylus but they are not hard to get on Ebay. The one I have was sent from Spain.

Originally Posted by Michael G

German efficiency - after sending off an email last night I had the local agent phone today. He explained that all repairs are done in Germany and a taster should be treated as a disposable device as by the time the parts, labour and transport costs are added in it is cheaper to buy a new one for $500 to $600.
Parts are not held in Australia except for probes, and again they are expensive. He will look for repair instructions for me though. Although the spring is apparently quite light, the oil should not be as thick as it is. Sewing machine oil has been suggested.
Thanks to Christian and Bob for the spring information. With that I should be able to see if I have the right spring and replace it if needs be.

Michael

On edit. It did not come with a stylus but they are not hard to get on Ebay. The one I have was sent from Spain.

That advice is familiar. When I asked Michael Deckel GMBH about removing the Centricator's arbor the suggestion was made to replace the entire device.

Originally Posted by Michael G

On edit. It did not come with a stylus but they are not hard to get on Ebay. The one I have was sent from Spain.

heh heh.. I thought that seller in spain only had one when I got mine, but he must have a heap..

Although now you have me worried my taster currently in transit may be damaged as it never came with a probe either.... It does have the rubber boot though...

I cleaned out the thick oil from the body and from the outside of the black bit with some acetone and tried it, but it was too dry. Used a little sewing machine oil (2x a dot on the end of my finger) and it slides very smoothly and only requires a light touch to move. Tomorrow I'll try to find time to put it in the mill and check the spring. With the lighter oil it feels much better though so the spring may be alright although abused.
I've also filed out the punch marks on the plug and replaced the SHCS that were positioning the spindle with proper M4x15 grub screws. It looks much more like it's relations now.
Only remaining issue preventing its use is the position of the hands on the dial. If I push on the plunger I have to move it in around 3mm before the hands go approximately to the zero position. So - more questions for the Taster owners

• Where do the hands point when the indicator is at rest - are they at zero or at -1 or...?
• My thought is that there might be a spacer missing from the ball joint that jacks the probe up around 3mm. If you are feeling brave, could one of you have a peek under the rubber boot and see if the probe ball sits directly on the plug surface or whether there is a plastic washer/ grommet/ seat in there that raises the probe up a little? (as not shown in the photo)

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Thanks, Michael

Originally Posted by .RC.

heh heh.. I thought that seller in Spain only had one when I got mine, but he must have a heap..

There is a Haimer factory in Spain. Makes me wonder whether the probes are officially on the market or "just happened to end up on Ebay"

Originally Posted by .RC.

Although now you have me worried my taster currently in transit may be damaged as it never came with a probe either...

Maybe it is; maybe it isn't - but at least you know how to disassemble it!

Michael

Hi Michael,
Did you want a bottle of the synthetic watch oil? I still have a couple spare.
Shame about the taster, i never leave feedback on ebay until i have the item.....

Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by Michael G

• Where do the hands point when the indicator is at rest - are they at zero or at -1 or...?

Thanks, Michael

Like this Michael