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  1. #1
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    Default How to hone a lathe tool ?

    Hi

    There seems to be many opinions on how to get a nice sharp edge on HSS lathe tools .

    Some advocate stones of various types .

    I know that it is easy to ruin an edge by using a incorrect honing method

    So whats the most effective method ? And, what is your preferred abrasive eg, diamond or whatever .

    Mike

  2. #2
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    Default

    Hi Mike, In the last 2 editions of MEW there are plans to make a honing tool for lathe tips, I think they used a diamond plate.
    Kryn

  3. #3
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    Default Mew

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Hi Mike, In the last 2 editions of MEW there are plans to make a honing tool for lathe tips, I think they used a diamond plate.
    Kryn
    Do you know the MEW issue numbers ? I have the latest issue and cannot see anything in it about honing . I will have a look at the recent on-line back issues .

    BTW I have tried all sorts of honing methods on my lathe tools and I usually end up with a blunt edge ( my fault again ) ... I find it best to use the tool straight off the grinder !

    There must be a easy way of doing the honing ......

  4. #4
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    Default

    I used to use a bench stone but that's a PIA. Too easy to roll the edge off. Lately I've used a cheap diamond wheel for finishing. Except it's getting clogged. Anyway there's a couple of tricks that can help. One is to hollow grind on the face of the wheel (white alox is ideal). Then just give it a kiss on the side of the wheel to create two narrow flats. Apply the bottom edge to the wheel first and roll up to the cutting edge. Remove it the opposite way. Repeat the last part with your chosen finishing medium. There's an article about it somewhere. ... which is eluding me. I will look again later. Unconsciousness beckons...

  5. #5
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    Hi Mike, MEW issue 201 page 14 and 202 page 16, titled a tool bit sharpening trolley. It describes the making process only at this stage, the last section is about the mounting of the diamond plates. Next issue I presume would be about using it.
    Regards,
    Kryn

  6. #6
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    Hi seen my old man for years lap his edges on a piece of glass and then hone them on a leather pad like a razor strop with jewellers rouge oil sew /mc oil. Used to do his chisels and plane blades same way [shave your arm hairs] He told me he learned that as a Vict Railways apprentice elec fitter they used collet lathes there but never asked him what brand they were [damn]He also told me that the old boys with treadle lathes did this method as the difference in leg power soon showed up.we used hi carbon steel for years and then hss cemented carbide tooling was for industry then and expensive for us . John.
    plate glass with fine valve paste.
    Last edited by j.ashburn; 29th Jun 2013 at 07:21 AM. Reason: more to add

  7. #7
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    Default Honing lathe tools

    Mike
    I agree with Bryans post on this.
    Bench stones are too "soft" & too large & very easy to roll the cutting edge.
    I have found are 1/2" square hard stone in alum oxide the best for this job. If a fine radii on the tool point say for a fine pitch screwthread is required, then a hard white arkansas stone in 1/2" square works well.
    Personally, I would not put too much emphasis on honing lathe tools, my experience over my lifetime has been with HSS tools & as Bryan says they come off a white Alum Oxide grade 80 grinding wheel ready for work.
    The only real honing that is needed is to hone the front rake radii on the tool.
    Especially for screwcutting work, where it is critical to have a predetermined radii that will hold up during the screwcutting process. To do this just mount the tool bit in its holder in the toolpost, & then position the 1/2" square honing stone against the front of the toolbit & carefully give the front rake of the toolbit a few rubs, to take out the grinder marks & form desired radii.
    The important thing is to have a "hard" honing stone, convential honing stones are too soft & will dubb over the cutting edge. Dipping the stone in kero will help the cutting action.
    So in essence...
    Do not over hone, just hone enough to remove grind marks otherwise it will be messed up.
    Hold stone firmly against the front rake angle.
    Do not rock the stone to alter the angle as this will dubb or dull the toolbit.
    Use a "hard" stone of small size say 1/2" square, that can easily be held by hand.
    These "Hard" alox stones can be obtained through toolmakers suppliers. I can give you a source if need be.
    A final note, an old tooley gave me years ago, do not bother trying to hone HSS toolbits for turning brass. The microscopic burr left by the grinding wheel actually aids the machining process when turning brass.
    This seems a long story on honing lathe tools, my suggestion if in doubt do not bother as it is easy to mess the toolbit, probably best to improve grinding skills first & to use a white alox grinding wheel, as they cut cool & clean, leaving a good edge.
    Hope this may be of some assistance.
    regards
    Bruce

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  9. #9
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    Default

    Mike,

    if you use a fine wheel in your bench grinder, there is no need to hone HSS tools that are just used for roughing steel.
    That said, HSS tools used for other metals do generally benefit from honing. And HSS tools used for fine finishing of steel to exact dimension do benefit from honing.

    To hone lathe tools, you use smaller stones than used for say sharpening knifes. The very best I know of is a fine grade Hard Arkansas stone. These are not cheap. Here a pic of how these look like:

    DSCF9986.jpg

    DSCF9987.jpg

    I bought these some 30 years ago, so you see they last a lifetime if properly used (then again, I stopped using HSS for anything other than special shape tools 20 years ago....).
    You just apply a few careful strokes, with very little pressure, to polish the cutting edge. It is like if you look at the tip of a knife, you use it to impart a tiny small second bevel to the cutting edge itself. And of course, you use it to smooth off the tip radius.

    Before using the Arkansas stones, it may be necessary to re-shape a tip radius, or to remove a burr, always stroking up onto the cutting edge. This I like to do either with an old and worn, very smooth and fine grain diamond hone, or with a Norton India oil stone. These come in many shapes, to touch up all sorts of cutting tools. Here some pics of Norton oil stones:

    Nort01.jpgNort02.jpgNort03.jpg


    After some practice, you will find that it does not take that much time to hone your HSS tools. HSS-Co tools stay sharp a lot longer than just HSS. And cheap low quality carbide inserts also benefit from a quick lap.


    However, nowdays one can buy ready shaped carbide inserts, that are as sharp as a carefully honed HSS out of the box. I personally prefer to use such inserts for ordinary turning/facig/boring on small lathes. I personally feel that I can make better use of the time spent for shaping, sharpening and honing HSS tools. In the past, say 10 years ago, this was not so, only HSS had the keen edge needed for finest finishing cuts on light manual lathes. But now since inserts like CCGT-alu have become available for such tasks, I see no more reason to pamper with HSS. Unless I need a special shape... Chris

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  11. #11
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    Default Got it

    OK, informative info as usual .

    I think my my main error has been overdoing it. I tend to attack the tool with gusto and hone away over the whole face until all of the grind marks are gone from the entire facet . Yes, I have discovered ( after lots of frustration ) that the normal grey hardware stones as used for chisels etc, are a waste of time . I did try diamond encrusted flat plates too, but the results were not that encouraging .

    The problem is, many of the HSS lathe tool sharpening articles in books and magazines rave on about rake and angles an so on ,ad nauseum. But they do not go into great detail about describing the honing process. The author usually writes , yes , it is beneficial to hone a tool , but then he doesn't describe how he does the honing process

    Mike

  12. #12
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    Default

    Mike I keep my lathe tools sharp by honing them regularly and almost never need to regrind them. I use small diamond stones and just keep them flat on each face, except for the nose, where I roll it around as needed. Since it's removing so little material there's no need to take them from the holders or reset the centre height. Normally a fine stone is enough to keep the edge crisp, although I sometimes use a medium, as I did today and reset the height of my parting tool as it was clearly becoming blunt. I don't worry too much about any grinding marks per se, but over time they naturally get honed away.

    Pete

    Edit: This is a packet I tend to use for this EZE-LAP DIAMOND SHARPENING SET- 3 pack/Super Fine, Fine & Med Grit (LP3) on eBay! however I also have some DMT stones and they're arguably better in my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Default Honing HSS.

    Agree with Pete F the diamond sticks he recommends work nicely. I mostly leave the bit in the toolpost and turn it round for easy access. A touch up after a few heavy cuts works better than waiting till it is blunt. The medium and coarse sticks seem to work best. Be sure the tool is clean and dry so you don't clog the diamond grit. Combustor.
    Old iron in the Outback, Kimberley WA.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by j.ashburn View Post
    Hi seen my old man for years lap his edges on a piece of glass and then hone them on a leather pad like a razor strop with jewellers rouge oil sew /mc oil. Used to do his chisels and plane blades same way [shave your arm hairs] He told me he learned that as a Vict Railways apprentice elec fitter they used collet lathes there but never asked him what brand they were [damn]He also told me that the old boys with treadle lathes did this method as the difference in leg power soon showed up.we used hi carbon steel for years and then hss cemented carbide tooling was for industry then and expensive for us . John.
    plate glass with fine valve paste.
    Still got a cigarette tin of his tool bits he made as a kid 1939 and some of his gravers ad scrapers mainly used files and are like glass hard.As he said the old blacksmiths at the railways were wizards at what they could make tools hard and work well after all is all they had in those days.some times that old tin has helped me out some nicely made stuff.
    I ask where are our industrial skills going? Time we each got some one to mentor to share these things [at least find 1 you can get away from their cell phone ipad . They are out there some kids who want to learn and see.
    In ref to the old man Railway days first 2 weeks on the job they went to the wood work shop made their fitters box out of timber[their bench top box.then down to the enamelers to make their own initialled name plate.those days are long gone now. and they used to buy their tools via a tool club that in turn had an account with Mc Phersons and could do bulk buy deals. still got all his Starret marking out stuff. cheers John.

  15. #15
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    Default Arkansaw

    Hi

    Well I bought a small arkansaw stone from a UK vendor for $15 - I thought I would give it a try . It is a fine , hard grade stone , 1" X 2" . First impression , it does the honing effectively . I have sharpened all my HSS lathe tools on it , it is easier and more effective to use than any other stone I have tried . Wish I had one of these stones earlier

    Mike

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