Thread: Deckel FP2LB

Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian

Test run video
Deckel FP2LB Test Run on Vimeo

Ray just checked that video nice machine.Re the damage looks pretty
grim.with out a 1-1 look its is going to marginal especially where the location is always in the spots with max usage.am sure some where here there is a slab of cast iron here that a piece off it would do is about 4 inches thick so is meat to play with by the looks.Could be a bone graft there with the skills ability and 'grey matter' on this forum.just the time and the angst to effect its repair Cheers for now J A.
As with most machines made they all got a weakness some where and judging by others who own them this is a given chance to boost the components structural integrity.Knowing the Teutonic race well the ''phillistine who did the damage to the mill in his mother country he be banished to "Siberia''.We make fine machines for fine operators dis does not happen.

I think as machines even expensive ones get older and the paint starts to chip and they look a bit grubby, that is when the "gomers" (cannot use the au version of gomer in this forum) swarm and get their hands on them with obvious results...

Ahh the video shows the damage..... My TC grinder t-slot had similar damage..........

I would fix that damage with an epoxy and a thin metal retainer under the epoxy... You could put some metal supports in the epoxy to stop it compressing...

Josh,

Nice, except for that 'T' slot damage.

As a thought; is there enough meat in that casting under the slot to mill it off and than turn up a steel ring/ "T" slot module and bolt it in place of the damaged piece???

Ken

Originally Posted by Toggy

Josh,

Nice, except for that 'T' slot damage.

As a thought; is there enough meat in that casting under the slot to mill it off and than turn up a steel ring/ "T" slot module and bolt it in place of the damaged piece???

Ken

I Like the thinking Ken,
I'm not sure how much meat there is under the slot, and I won't get a good idea until I pull it apart.

-Josh

Oh I dont know, put an M8 head on an M12 bolt then hide it, you're just asking for trouble. Then make the weakest link the most expensive part and your well on your way to selling some spare parts?

As I understand it there is no "feel", when you "feel" something you have just damaged something.

I'm still in the "skim 0.5mm off see how much of it cleans up and make some super extra long tee nuts" camp. Sorry did I say "tee nuts" I meant bridges hehe . I'm guessing* as bad as the edges look, a little further back wont be so bad............thought as I say thats just a guess.

*well maybe hoping really

Stuart

p.s. That VSD looks like something I wired up!

Thanks for the vid boys

I see the X handwheel has been drinking......

I'm with Ken on the fix, bolt a new ring on, with an arc cut to fit the fully busted bit. I'm guessing there is a bolt right in the middle of that section? If there is i think Stu's bridge nuts won't really do anything there. Hang on....are they t nuts or t bolts (i'm a bit confused with which pics are yours and which arn't)? How can one do that damage with a t bolt? A nut you can jack up into the t with the bolt.....like what happens on mill tables.

Is it as load as it seems in the vid?

Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

I'm with Ken on the fix, bolt a new ring on, with an arc cut to fit the fully busted bit. I'm guessing there is a bolt right in the middle of that section? If there is i think Stu's bridge nuts won't really do anything there.

Not sure I understand the question?
You mean will there be a bolt in the middle of the missing section? That would depend what angle the head is at. But at most angles there will be a bolt somewhere in at section.
One side of the tee slot is still there. with a "packer" on the other side it will still work. So as I'm seeing it at worse you will lose 1/8th of the clamping force it left the factory with. Not trouble at all to get that back with longer tee nuts. If you machine it all off and replace it you will get all 8 8ths clamps force(or more with longer nuts), but I'm wondering just how rigid it will be?.......Oh and one other plus of my way is if it turns out not to work you can always machine it all off and try that way.

Originally Posted by Ueee

Hang on....are they t nuts or t bolts (i'm a bit confused with which pics are yours and which arn't)? How can one do that damage with a t bolt? A nut you can jack up into the t with the bolt.....like what happens on mill tables.

They are tee bolts.
Possibly to be replaced by tee nuts(likely tee nuts with a stud loctited into them??) .

How do you damage a tee slot with a tee bolt? By tightening the bolt until it the load on the area under the head in contact exceeds what the cast iron can take. Makes it easier if you have a M12(?) bolt with a tiny head, with the curved slot and a straight bolt head making things even worse.

Stuart

Fair point. I guess i mean will there be a bolt there with the head trammed.....

I had better be careful. Similar small headed bolts on Mlle, 5 per swivel. Only hers are M16 x 1.5mm......

Originally Posted by Ueee

Fair point. I guess i mean will there be a bolt there with the head trammed.....

By the look of the pictures....ummmm maybe one at one end of the missing section.

Originally Posted by Ueee

I had better be careful. Similar small headed bolts on Mlle, 5 per swivel. Only hers are M16 x 1.5mm......

Maybe that would be best.

My main reason for liking the start from scratch approach was I thought the ring was cracking further around from the break. But I think that was a jagged shadow from the damaged underside of the slot. If the only 2 problems are the crumbled underside of the slot and the missing section, then I'm preferring a repair. Like boring out the bad surface and inserting a square section steel ring. Feed it in through the break like a circlip. Maybe even in two halves. Then you can bridge the void with the ring, a packer and a really long nut. Bet you could even get it to look good.

PS: There, that was easy; what are you moaning about?

I find it difficult to believe that Deckel would have used Unbrako (style) tee bolts to secure the head. It looks to me as if the buttress section of the bolt is the cause of the mutilation of the slot. The head of the bolt, being short, has allowed the bolt to rotate and dig in.

How about taking advantage of the breakaway and using it as the insertion point for some long curved tee bolts. Longer than Wilfred's. And rather than machine off the damage in the slot, how about rebuilding the slot with something like Devcon Steel Putty and cleaning it up with a light skim cut. Something that will provide a continuous smooth bearing surface. The broken section of casting could possibly be replaced with a screwed on piece of cast iron, slottted during the tee slot clean up. If you require some cast, I have some 4E and a 5kg Parcel Post bag on standby.

BT

Originally Posted by Bryan

My main reason for liking the start from scratch approach was I thought the ring was cracking further around from the break. But I think that was a jagged shadow from the damaged underside of the slot. If the only 2 problems are the crumbled underside of the slot and the missing section, then I'm preferring a repair. Like boring out the bad surface and inserting a square section steel ring. Feed it in through the break like a circlip. Maybe even in two halves. Then you can bridge the void with the ring, a packer and a really long nut. Bet you could even get it to look good.

PS: There, that was easy; what are you moaning about?

While I was pissing around with a link, Bryan slipped in.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

While I was pissing around with a link, Bryan slipped in.

So whats your excuse for missing what I wrote two days ago then?

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Given that they have thoughtful broken a big piece out for you. How about 4 tee nuts that are as long as the break for starters. That will let you bridge the bad parts of the tee slot. Then a section that bolts in. It wont carry much load in itself but it will just be a packer to keep the tee nuts "straight"

hehe

Stuart

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I find it difficult to believe that Deckel would have used Unbrako (style) tee bolts to secure the head. It looks to me as if the buttress section of the bolt is the cause of the mutilation of the slot. The head of the bolt, being short, has allowed the bolt to rotate and dig in.

Hi BT,

That makes perfect sense, now that you point it out.. the unbrako tee bolts are a sloppy fit in the t-slots, that alone makes me suspicious that they aren't original. Larger semi-circular t-nuts that fit properly after we skim the damaged slot, might be the best approach, and as Stuart says, if it doesn't work out then we can go back to plan B and machine a whole new T slot assembly.

Either way we will be needing that rotary table..

Regards
Ray

PS... Yes it was nice of them to prepare for the larger t-nuts by smashing the sides out...