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Thread: Alfred Herbert (?) Dividing head
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5th Jul 2013, 07:54 AM #31Philomath in training
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I've found for an ER collet system the angle does not have to be spot on to the last minute, so setting it up on the compound will give a good enough result. (I once cut an ER chuck cavity at 7.5 degrees rather than 8 and it worked although I recut at the correct angle when I realised soon after what I'd done.)
If things are done properly case hardening would be unnecessary for the use it is likely to see. The collect should not rotate in the chuck and pressure will be evenly distributed inside the chuck
Michael
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5th Jul 2013, 10:41 AM #32
Hi Stuart,
To set the compound angle I simply clocked the angle of a bought er chuck in the spindles Morse taper. I checked the taper with a collet and some marko, with a cutter shank in the collet so it would not deform. And its too late.....I already bought Greg's c1 waldown......
Hi RC,
I would have groumd the taper again but was worried about the thread ending up slightly oval and having no way of fixing it. I'll leave it soft I think.1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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5th Jul 2013, 11:36 AM #33Most Valued Member
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Hi Michael,
Thanks lol Thats pretty much the exactly opposite what I was thinking. I'd thought it would need to be spot on or it would only grip "one end".
Hi Ewan,
I dont have a spindle mount chuck, only a flange mount, which isnt what you could call spot on. I'll use it and check against a collet on ground bar between centers. That as a little finger crossing sounds like it will get me "close enough"
What you could have done (I'm told) is leave the thread area over size. Case harden(without quenching), machine case off thread area, heat, quench, machine thread, grind taper.
Stuart
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5th Jul 2013, 11:53 AM #34
Hi Stuart,
I was thinking along the same lines, only maybe putting something on the thread area to stop the powder from penetrating the area, or just carefully putting the powder in the bore only. Of course if there is any carbon in the stock, like most bright bar has, it will probably end up too hard to cut with hss anyway.....maybe it could be roughed and ground with the tpg..... now there's a challenge....
If you watch a series of YouTube vids by doubleboost (the guy with the crazy jordie accent) he has 4 vids on making an er32 chuck, and shows another way of clocking a collet.
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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5th Jul 2013, 12:17 PM #35
Hi Ewan,
Looks good, nice to see a job come together.
On the heat treatment, I'd leave that job just as it is... but, when you get time try an experimental case hardening with a similar shape, BUT, do it in the following order
1. rough machine oversize,
2. stress relieve heating cycle, ( heat, hold, slow cool )
3. finish machining,
4. case harden.
Regards
Ray
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5th Jul 2013, 12:53 PM #36Philomath in training
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6th Jul 2013, 12:24 AM #37Most Valued Member
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Hi Ray,
Would you want a case hardened thread though?
Hi Michael,
Sorry I butchered my answer, I was trying to agree with you as you had been there and done it, but the "close enough" comment slipped down a little. I will get it as close as I can and see how it goes, I just wont lose sleep over it.
Stuart
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6th Jul 2013, 12:47 AM #38
A good point Michael, i just thought like Stu, the closer the better, hence the check with the marko.
All the parts are now clean and primed. The head itself is scraped on 3 of its sides, and where the spindle thrusts behind the front bearing. It was really nice to see once i pulled it from the tub and washed it down, all these scraping marks just appeared.....
Now for bog and sanding, bog and sanding......
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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6th Jul 2013, 01:23 AM #39
Hi Ewan,
Love looking at your work! the projects are certainly moving along nicely. We've got the Meca rotary table up to about the same stage.. hoping to get some colour on it in the coming days. I reckon the way you are going you might finish before we do.
Can't wait to see it finished.
Regards
Ray
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6th Jul 2013, 08:00 AM #40Philomath in training
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6th Jul 2013, 12:51 PM #41
Hi Michael,
Not wishing to interrupt Ewan's thread, the paint ( if it ever arrives! ) is Industrial Equipment Coatings | Valspar GI 2 pack epoxy colour is RAL 6011
It's pretty close to the original Meca colour, and of course is the standard "Deckel Reseda Green" so this is a bit of a trial run for the Deckel Restoration Project...
Hi Ewan, What paint are you planning on using for the dividing head?
Regards
Ray
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6th Jul 2013, 02:55 PM #42Pink 10EE owner
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6th Jul 2013, 09:45 PM #43
Hi Ray,
I was just going to use the same as what i did Mlle in, Reseda green rust guard epoxy enamel. I am thinking i might trial putting a clear over it though. As much as i see the merits in 2 pac i have had enough of mixing it and cleaning cleaning out guns etc. It is also far harder to repair properly if the time comes.
All the clears i have used also tend to be tougher than a pigmented colour in the same paint range (my experiance is mostly in poly and acid-catylist), whether it will apply to the epoxy enamel or not i don't know.
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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18th Aug 2013, 12:04 AM #44
With some nice weather and so many things on the go i thought i would try and get this finished. I had some problems with the topcoat not gripping the high build primmer properly and getting wrinkles when i put the second coat on......No clear either, the only stuff i could find was satin.
Anyway, i managed to get most of the spraying finished today, yes it has ended up gray as i didn't have enough green left.
I also machined the shaft down for fitting gears to for differential indexing and spiral cutting. It was 1 1/2" but since Mlle's shaft is 20mm i made it the same. What i didn't do is rough it off then let it cool before taking the final cuts. When i machined it it measured 19.995, same as Mlle's, but now it is cool its more like 19.983. Works out to be around 45 deg difference in the shaft to get that change.....i didn't think it was that hot.....Bump lathe coolant up the list......
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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18th Aug 2013, 07:06 AM #45Most Valued Member
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Hi Ewan,
first up, bugga on the expansion from heat. Amazing the difference it makes.
Second, I am convinced that while the rest of us get 'shed time', you get 'house time'. Am I correct.
Phil
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