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Thread: Alfred Herbert (?) Dividing head
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22nd Jun 2013, 10:32 PM #16Philomath in training
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A copy of the spiral section would be interesting thanks Ewan.
I'd be interested in a review of the whole book actually - ABE shows editions published from 1914 to 1950 something - are they all the same or has more material been added?
Michael
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22nd Jun 2013, 10:43 PM #17
This one states original copyright 1882, this edition is 1991. Its another one of Bobs generous offerings.
It is very old fashion. Lots of stuff on horizontal milling, and hobbing cutters, machining relief etc. this is the version i have, i think anyway....Construction and Use of Universal Milling Machines by Brown & Shape Mfg. Co: Lindsay 9781559180665 Paperback - Slategray Ventures I'll email you.1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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23rd Jun 2013, 08:47 AM #18Philomath in training
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As I was looking through Schlesinger for the lathe spec Stuart mentioned, I chanced on this -
Dividing (Medium).jpg
It's another one of those books that you really need to read regularly and cover to cover 'cos there's all sorts hidden in there.
Michael
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23rd Jun 2013, 12:45 PM #19.
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Michael,
The B and S treatise I sent Ew was similar to this one. Amazon.com: Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines: Books
Probably a similar date of publication. I have a '51 edition.
When I was in Melbourne some time back and the Technical Bookshop in Swanson Street still existed, I picked up a copy of The Cincinnati Milling Machine Company's 1919 Treatise on Milling, a Lindsay Publications reprint. 400 pages. Being a window shopper when it comes to the machines of the stature of those illustrated in both books, means I don't really need both. And given they contain similar technical data, how about I slide the B and S edition into a spare parcel post bag and head it your way? Payment for the arbor experience.
BT
ps. Ewan describes the treatise as being old fashioned. It is but in the case of the edition I have it's only ten years older than my mill. I wonder if there are any more recent publications dealing with the use of machines such as those we use or is the assumption that if you had access to say a Sajo or Vernier or a whatever, you would know what you were doing. I have a manual for the Swiss. It doesn't have a chapter on here's how you cut a worm. It covers maintenance, nothing more.
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23rd Jun 2013, 01:36 PM #20Philomath in training
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That would be very kind of you Bob, if you can spare it. If you want to throw the arbor in as well I'll see if I can recut the taper on it for you (You might be able to re-purpose it for something else then).
Michael
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25th Jun 2013, 12:06 AM #21
So i have some parts bubbling away in the electrolysis tank...what to do next???
I thought whilst the spindle was out it would be a good tome to make a new backplate for the small chuck from my RT. And since the spindle seems to be an odd taper (somewhere between MT4 & 5) i thought i would make an ER40 collet chuck too.
For the backplate i used on of the flywheels from an old treadmill (damn those thing are a gold mine) and set to cutting the pulley off (for later use of course) and boring it out to the 64 odd mm required for the 6tpi ACME thread. I've never cut an ACME.....nothing like diving in the deep end and doing an internal in CI.
DSCN0354 (Large).jpgDSCN0355 (Large).jpgDSCN0368 (Large).jpg
So i ground a tool, i was to impatient to grind a grooving tool and running it in first, which lead to my downfall with a bit of chatter which of course once started was nigh on impossible to get rid of.
Anyway, the thread fit without any real hassles, but now of course i will need to machine the other side of it......I'm thinking of putting the spindle in the 4 jaw and the fixed steady so i can machine the chuck register in situ.
DSCN0374 (Large).jpgDSCN0371 (Large).jpgDSCN0376 (Large).jpgDSCN0375 (Large).jpg
I then chopped a length of 90mm bar and set to making a start on the ER40 chuck. Another challenge on this one, a stopped ACME thread...FUN! I will run a grooving tool in first though, then machine the flanks. The welded spots on the end of the bar were *HARD* and i ended up having to go back gear and deep cut with HSS to get under them. So, even with 6 belts speeds and a VFD a back gear is still handy!
Briangoldcoast is asking about a BS4. My BS5S took about 16 or 17 min to get through the 90mm bar with a bi-metal blade. they do cut big stuff well.....
.DSCN0377 (Large).jpgDSCN0383 (Large).jpgDSCN0386 (Large).jpg
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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25th Jun 2013, 12:31 AM #22Senior Member
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Again Ewan nice job so far,you really given me some inspiration now to resurrect the Mars here.Pickle bath been going 24/7 top slide tail stock and lead screw mounts and idler gear arm doe now. When I get camera working will post some pics.Got the deep Red colour paint the other day it seems to be the orig livery no sign of battle ship grey got it in horrible 6X4 trailer hammertone blue ''yuk'' Cheers John.
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25th Jun 2013, 12:36 AM #23.
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I admire the way you get stuck into stuff Ew. Not one to be daunted.
Nice photos.
BT
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25th Jun 2013, 07:16 AM #24Most Valued Member
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Inspirational Ewan, Like Bob says, you are "not one to be daunted".
Phil
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30th Jun 2013, 11:09 PM #25Philomath in training
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Just looking at this thread again - that odd taper - is a Brown and Sharpe taper? Following on from the comments about a B&S dividing head being much copied, a B&S taper was particularly common in dividing heads (don't know why - finding an an adapter is particularly difficult). Making up a B&S to Morse adaptor for my D/H is on the list too.
Michael
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30th Jun 2013, 11:24 PM #26
Could be Michael,
I just tried a 4 and 5mt and when neither fitted i left it there. I think i have a chart of different taper dimensions in the shed, i'll investigate.
Whilst typing here are some pics of the ACME thread for the ER40 chuck. Roughed out first made a big difference, in fact the roughing took well longer than the form cutting. Unfortunately as soon as i bottomed the tool out in the roughing cut it got some chatter. The mars is right on its limits at 6tpi, but it made it.
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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4th Jul 2013, 10:02 PM #27
The collet chuck is now made, as well as the chuck backplate. I would like to mess around a bit with the TPG and see if i can grind the internal taper on the collet chuck, but i need to get some wheels......(it's all Gregs fault ) I'm also considering case hardening it but i'm not sure if i will get any distortion.
Anyway, the last part to be cleaned should go in the tank tomorrow, then its painting time.
Cheers,
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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4th Jul 2013, 11:16 PM #28Most Valued Member
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Hi Ewan,
Nice work.
You dont want a grinder..... you'll end up grinding everything.
How did you set up the angle for the internal collet chuck taper? I happen to be making something along those lines ATM. I thought about case hardening but I'm hoping for the amount of use I will give it its not needed?
Stuart
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5th Jul 2013, 12:51 AM #29Senior Member
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Nice work Ewan,every job I see you do makes me more comfortable with the Mars. Is all in bits now and most of it is bubbling away.Tripped A over t Monday and smacked my head on the head stock end of the bed, big bump and skin off wont be on any celebrity shows for a while.They are hard.Keep up your good work.John.
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5th Jul 2013, 07:41 AM #30Pink 10EE owner
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Case hardening will distort it.... You would have to grind after hardening....
Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.
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