Thread: Restoring a Weir boiler feed pump

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Yes I'd noticed those. I try vicegrips with 1mm aluminium in the jaws first up............. but then with a first glance those studs could look like 1/4". On a closer inspection I'm guessing more like 3/4? Vice grips just arent likely to cut it lol
There wouldnt be to many parts of that pump you could drop on your foot and smile about.

Stuart

I guess everyone has their favourite method, but I get a spare nut and hacksaw a slot so that when you crank up the vice grips it clamps the thread, but for something "really" rusted up the locknut method would work better..

Also works well for holding bolts or threaded rod in the vise while you hacksaw or file away..

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Yes I'd noticed those. I try vicegrips with 1mm aluminium in the jaws first up............. but then with a first glance those studs could look like 1/4". On a closer inspection I'm guessing more like 3/4? Vice grips just arent likely to cut it lol
There wouldnt be to many parts of that pump you could drop on your foot and smile about.

Stuart

My plan as well Stuart but my only set of vice grips were at work

Originally Posted by RayG

I guess everyone has their favourite method, but I get a spare nut and hacksaw a slot so that when you crank up the vice grips it clamps the thread, but for something "really" rusted up the locknut method would work better..

Also works well for holding bolts or threaded rod in the vise while you hacksaw or file away..

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray,
That was my backup plan but no spare nut the same size. The studs are retrievable and the scars wont be seen

Phil

I like the slit nut idea... I may have even heard of it before but forgeten it.

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

My plan as well Stuart but my only set of vice grips were at work

Well there has to be some sort of penalty for your day job being your weekend job

Stuart

A good day today, cleaned up a few bits and assessed the damage. There was very little damage overall. One bit that annoyed me was the damage to the valve gear levers as there is no need for it. It comes from a lack of knowledge in how to run a pump like this. If the pointers are not open to bypass when starting the pump will stall and the generally preferred method of getting it going again is to get a bar under the valve gear levers and force the piston rod to move again. I can only guess this happened a lot as there was quite a bit of scarring where this normally takes place. Phew, I feel better now
I set up outside the shed as the sun was shining and set about wire brushing some parts. I started with the small bits first and immediately came up with something I had been looking for, the serial number.

Here is a reminder of what I started with
DSC_1104.jpg

This number is normally in three places and I found them all
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Steam cylinder cover
DSC_1105.jpg

Steam cylinder
DSC_1115.jpg DSC_1117.jpg

Steam slide valve chest
DSC_1125.JPG

I also cleaned up the bells, shuttle valve, steam slide valve covers, steam piston, water piston, pump cover and auxilliary valve cover. I also startred on the valve gear levers but they aren't finished yet.

It might not look like much but it seemed to take forever
DSC_1130.JPG

and a pic of all 3 numbers (boring I know but it means it is a matched set)
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this pump even had the original Ebonite rings and before you ask think bowling balls and what they are made of (or maybe 'used to be')
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I couldn't help my self so gave a 'working clothes' clean to the pointers to see how it would look. Should be ok.
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I almost forgot about the method I used to remove the stud form the steam piston.
I placed a piece of flat over the stud after drilling a hole the same size as the stud. I then welded the stud to the flat, this way the flat protects the piston. I then welded a nut to the flat and undid the stud.
DSC_1108.jpg

I also got the urge to remove the cover off the valves and after removing about 30 super feet of sawdust I found this little horror.
The one on the right is correct and the one on the left is what happens if you're not careful when putting the valves back in.
I did a quick check of the valves and they are in excellent condition.
DSC_1142.JPG

Phil

Ah Phil,
It looks like you have certainly hooked a few of us watching you progress this project - it's much better than TV! Perhaps this is how you get motivated - not wanting to disappoint a very curious audience.

I am so impressed by this (metalwork) forum that the OC (Officer Commanding) thinks I'm in here having an on-line affair!! Maybe it is - of sorts.

Daryl

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

and a pic of all 3 numbers (boring I know but it means it is a matched set)

Theres nothing quite like finding numbers under the gunge, and more importantly them all being the same.
When you say wire brushing, do you mean by hand or with a bristle throwing machine (grinder)?

Cheers

Originally Posted by DarBee

Ah Phil,
It looks like you have certainly hooked a few of us watching you progress this project - it's much better than TV! Perhaps this is how you get motivated - not wanting to disappoint a very curious audience.

I am so impressed by this (metalwork) forum that the OC (Officer Commanding) thinks I'm in here having an on-line affair!! Maybe it is - of sorts.

Daryl

Hi Daryl,
I know what you mean, I have watched a few rebuilds on this forum myself so it's nice to return the favour although I'm getting more than strange looks from mine by the time I have uploaded pics and all
It certainly is one of the better if not the best. I was looking for an odd bit of info on the weir pump the other day and this forum was on Googles first page. Didn't see any others

Originally Posted by Ueee

Theres nothing quite like finding numbers under the gunge, and more importantly them all being the same.
When you say wire brushing, do you mean by hand or with a bristle throwing machine (grinder)?

Cheers

Hi Ewan,
I sort of used a combination of both, hand, and bristle thrower, which reminds me "note to self," 'check front of clothes before picking up another heavy casting'
I went to Total tools to see what was available yesterday and came home with a straight brush on a long shaft. It worked brilliantly on the internals of the steam valve chest using my pistol drill.

Phil

ps photo count so far...285. would love to post them all but that would put everyone in a coma

Hi Phil watching your rebuild with similar enthusiasm,BTW the old boys always used to wear leather aprons, got 1? Used to be able to get them from reputable produce stores, ''cockies'' use them when carting in small baled hay gone now for a few all big bales now forks needed now re weight.
Also gone are the days when artisans wore bowler hats,vests and collar and ties.
Having been a victim of several ''piercings'' with the flying wires,usually go for the leather apron got 2 here a thick one and a supple green hide 1 neats foot oil the way to keep them nice and not like cardboard if you can stand the stink.Loose wires are fun trying to find them in the pubic hair region. John.ps your thread on the Weir is becoming habit forming .

Being on the receiving end of broken studs bolts ezi outs in article brought in to me over last 40 odd years ,nothing beats the old washer over the broken bit,crank up the stick welder hi current bring out the slag to the edge chip off weld on a nut ,couple cracks with a hammer according to bolt stud size on with the appropriate spanner vice grips stillson and wind out. The heat from the hi current will cause stud to contract crack any corrosion loosen the thread even wound them out with fingers before.Done some real curly ones upside down and all dozer track guards etc Great challenges some of them.A set of lh drills are good cobalt if you can get some but is always hard to get a center pop centred if the bolt has sheared off esp hi tensile. John.

Apologies guys but nothing exciting to report last night as all I was doing was cleaning out the tapped holes for the studs (not that they needed it). I will probably run a die nut down the studs as well. I did a bit of a survey to assess any repairs and here's what I came up with.

Steam Valve Chest
The shuttle valve should be a good fit on the round face matching the round face with the ports and passages of the steam chest. This is done by using a file and marking blue (a big thank you to Marco and the Phil from the Melbourne Scraping Class for making available a world class marking blue ) The fit is very close but I can see a slight discrepancy using a light in the background so this shouldn't take too much work.
DSC_1128.JPG DSC_1000.JPG

On the other side of the shuttle valve is a flat face that has to be scraped in to the auxilliary valve. It's a law that valve faces that slide against each other are to be scraped as with lapping, the grinding/lapping paste will impregnate the faces and accelerate wear.
DSC_0999.JPG DSC_0996.JPG

I thought about straightening the auxiliary valve spindle but on closer inspection it was 'necked' from over-tightening the gland or perhaps just wear and tear so a new one will have to be made. I understand new ones are still available but where's the fun in that
DSC_0922.jpg

About the only other part in the steam valve chest are the bells and they aren't too bad at all.

I had a quick look at the tapers on either end of the piston rod and I'm not real happy. Perhaps a closer look should be in order. The steam piston retaining nut was loose when I disassembled it which is not a good thing. I am also still struggling to get the crosshead off as well but at least I have moved it on the rod which is something. The rod shows slight 'necking also. No close up pics of that yet as it is still a 'work in progress'
DSC_1065.JPG DSC_1060.jpg

If one was to get nitpicky............Wouldn't the flat face of the shuttle valve and auxiliary valve be scraped flat......not to each other..... or one flat and the other to it.......wouldn't that mean you need to make a little master for the shuttle valve.(be nice if it was parallel and square to a few things also.

ok with that out the way. the real purpose of my nitpicking. When the Steam Valve Chest and Shuttle valve are scraped to each other. How do you make sure they are "straight/parallel"? i.e. not a cone or some other strange shape that wont slide/seal well over each other over the length of the stroke?

Stuart

Originally Posted by j.ashburn

Hi Phil watching your rebuild with similar enthusiasm, BTW the old boys always used to wear leather aprons, got 1?

Hi John,
well I feel like a bit of a dill now, I actually moved the apron to get the wire cup wheel

Originally Posted by Stustoys

If one was to get nitpicky............Wouldn't the flat face of the shuttle valve and auxiliary valve be scraped flat......not to each other..... or one flat and the other to it.......wouldn't that mean you need to make a little master for the shuttle valve.(be nice if it was parallel and square to a few things also.

ok with that out the way. the real purpose of my nitpicking. When the Steam Valve Chest and Shuttle valve are scraped to each other. How do you make sure they are "straight/parallel"? i.e. not a cone or some other strange shape that wont slide/seal well over each other over the length of the stroke?

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
Nah, not being nitpicky. In fact you have said what I meant to say. I will scrape them both flat separately and I am in fact looking forward to making the little master. It is at this point that I wish I had a small rock. Borrowing the little one from work sucks but 'ya do what ya gotta do'. At this rate I might have to bite the bullet and finally get my own
With the Shuttle Valve and the Steam Valve Chest faces it's not super critical. The worst that can happen is wasting steam. It doesn't give a noticeable effect to the performance of the pump, but, it's not good form to do a rough fit in this area. The shuttle moves at about 100 metres per second as it travels the 20 or so millimetres so there isn't a great period of 'limbo land'. Those two faces are fitted to each other using a file and only the area where the two faces meet are filed. The two ends need to be a good fit in the bells to shoot the shuttle to the other end. It might sound difficult but it is just a mater if blueing the Steam Chest bars and filing the Shuttle Valve until they are a good fit. The bells that contain the shuttle valve are not locked in one position, they are sandwhiched between a shoulder and the cover with the pointers on and can move a bit laterally.
When scraping the flat face, the only important thing is to make sure the slots on the round face of the Shuttle Valve are parallel to the flat face after scraping. The Auxilliary valve applies pressure to the Shuttle Valve as well as the steam pressure on the back of the Auxilliary valve.

Phil

Hi Phil,
One thing i meant to ask earlier, and is more of a general steam question than one relating to the pump, but is rust a big problem with steam engines? I had never considered it before but all that moisture would surely cause some rusting of internals?
Or does steam not cause rust? Does the steam even turn to water before it leaves the engine (once its warmed up anyway)?

Cheers
Ew