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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default oil seals

    I have been putting this off for too long; so today I replaced 3 oil seals. One was a missing grease seal on the output shaft of the feed motor. Off the shelf size so no problems. The other 2 were hydraulic seals on the feed gearbox and main drive input shaft. For those who don't know, hydraulic seals are a soft seal which fit in a groove and designed to take pressures of 2-3000 psi. These ones only contained a very thin "O" ring to keep pressure on the sealing surface. I suspect that the high cylinder pressure then presses the sealing surface against the shaft.
    Anyway; these ones leaked oil worse than a pommy car, and were not easily available locally.

    I bought 2 modern oil seals with the correct shaft size and machined the casting in the mill and the other holder in the lathe.
    All fitted up nicely and are snug on the gear and pulley. Hopefully will be leak free.

    Pic 4 is the "new" style of cooling fan from the rebuilt feed motor. Obviously somebody got a bit butch and broke it; so they hacked some more away to balance it. No wonder they jammed those bits of wood in the cooling slots----to hide their butchery.
    Ken


    001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg004.jpg

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default

    Have finally got around to rewiring the low voltage control circuits. What a nightmare; two circuits; red for forward and yellow for reverse. Well that's what it started on from the 1st pair of NC switches and then randomly twitched together in 3 bunches and covered with tape in the table control box. No wonder it was crashed as the electronic stops were not working as well as missing numerous end stops.

    Used the machine in anger today. I can now see what Ewan means on the rigidity of these types of machine. Not a single bit of vibration or chatter. 90mm face cutter and it just sailed through that tough tool steel. I have been making up a set of horizontal and vertical draw bolts for it and they have an adjustable draw-in nut with sleeve. The machine handled the forming of the hex nut easily, but as it was only held in a 5c collet I had to back off the feed rate a bit. The table feed power train is quiet and smooth. The head is a different matter; noisy as. Some is gear clatter and it sounds like there may be bearing problems in the 2 main gearbox shafts. There has been at least one of these bearings replaced before. I used iso68 hydraulic oil as the box lubricant, but I suspect that heavier gear oil may have been used previously.

    The photos have been printed in invisible ink.

    Ken

  3. #48
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Default

    Glad to here she is up and running Ken
    They sure do love to be pushed. You set a big cut and step back only to be met with a jovial "is that all, come on, let me take a real cut".

    As for the noise, what is it like without the vertical head? My VH is not really noisy but it is a lot noisier than not having it on.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  4. #49
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default

    Ewan.

    I haven't really given it a good run without the vertical head. Jumped straight in making parts for the draw bolts. The noise is quite bearable with good earmuffs on.

    The drive gear that fits in the horizontal arbor for the vertical head has some wear; most likely due to lack of lubrication. There is a small oil reservoir in the casting above the gear and it has a >1/8" copper tube for the dropper tube. I made up a felt wick to fit in it to give a slow constant drip feed; but may have to make a smaller wick. If no wick the reservoir would almost instantly drain.

    With the main gearbox there is gear clatter which may be accentuated by the thinner iso68 oil. The original oil I drained appeared much thicker. Maybe they used sae80
    gear oil to quieten things down. Good thing the filler is only small as I wouldn't have been able to stuff a banana skin in there. My hearing is not what it used to be (probably a by produce of spousal nagging); but I think that I can hear skidding balls in a bearing. At least one of the 4 large rollers on the 2 shafts has failed before as I found parts of the cage in the case.

    I have need for a mill at the moment, so will press on until I get real bad noises or have time to replace the bearings.

    Ken

  5. #50
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Default

    Vernier recommend ISO32 for everthing except the table rise and fall screw which is ISO68. The biggest noise for me is something in the feed train, i think its actually the motor bearings but i have not really looked into it.

    I always thought you used the banana and not the peel

    The crash that the Rossi had must have been monumental, it shows what one lapse in concentration and some missing stops can do.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Far West Wimmera
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Vernier recommend ISO32 for everthing except the table rise and fall screw which is ISO68. The biggest noise for me is something in the feed train, i think its actually the motor bearings but i have not really looked into it.

    I always thought you used the banana and not the peel

    The crash that the Rossi had must have been monumental, it shows what one lapse in concentration and some missing stops can do.

    Ew
    Many years ago there was a TV ad for an Adelaide used car dealer. The ad was very tongue in cheek. It showed the application of a banana in reducing the noise in a diff and I am certain the banana was peeled first. Not a definitive reference, but at least one piece of the puzzle.

    Dean

  7. #52
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default Off with her head.

    I got mixed up there; she's Italian, not French.

    Photo 1 shows the gantry in use with the vertical head. Works OK.

    Earmuffs made no difference in noise level.

    Ken002.jpg008.jpg

  8. #53
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    Aug 2010
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    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
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    72
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    Default

    What the devil are you machining there? And how did you go about welding that great lump?
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  9. #54
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default

    Hi Joe,
    No fish on the bite tonight.

    It was not I who knackered that casting nor tried the weld job repair. I am the mug trying to rescue it. It is a casting which holds the swivel vice and head on a Brobo saw(Italian built). The grade of cast iron used did not like the welder. Starting to face off the cast surfaces with intention of plating them. Was a nice pyrotechnics show through that rear weld. The packer at the front is the compensate for casting draught.

    If I have to raise that table any higher I was need a stepladder. Even with 18" of Z travel I run out of clearance for the vertical head.

    I added another litre of oil to the main gear box. Overfull with oil and is only a dip feed. Low range was still very noisy and I suspect that the thin oil is not transferring to the top shaft and bearings. Stepped up to the high range for this job and the noise quietened down considerably as well as lubricating everything nearby via the shaft bearings; no seals on them. Pic of the drawbolts and another view of the casting setup.

    Ken004.jpg006.jpg

  10. #55
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    Jun 2008
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    Victoria, Australia
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    Default

    Hi Ken,

    I really have to come and get a closer look at that italian thoroughbred.. the little bits I see look good..

    Ray

  11. #56
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default

    I must change my deodorant Ray; you still haven't checked out the machine.

    Some time ago Ewan documented machining using the power feed on the Z axis. I had to drill some accurate holes today and couldn't be bothered using the hand feed on the Z to lift 3/4 of a ton or so of knee and table; so used the Z power feed to raise the job to the drill. What a wonderful invention. Just fit a spotting/guide /size drill, spindle power on, feed motor on, actuate vertical feed lever, rapids to job and revert to feed. Drill hole and forcibly put Z feed lever out of gear. It tends to lock in gear and stiff to throw out. Hopefully will wear in and not out.

    These were the repaired gears and housing. I am now convinced that some goose destroyed the housing and gears by using down rapids and driving the lead screw into the floor.

    Ken

  12. #57
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toggy View Post
    I must change my deodorant Ray; you still haven't checked out the machine.

    Some time ago Ewan documented machining using the power feed on the Z axis. I had to drill some accurate holes today and couldn't be bothered using the hand feed on the Z to lift 3/4 of a ton or so of knee and table; so used the Z power feed to raise the job to the drill. What a wonderful invention. Just fit a spotting/guide /size drill, spindle power on, feed motor on, actuate vertical feed lever, rapids to job and revert to feed. Drill hole and forcibly put Z feed lever out of gear. It tends to lock in gear and stiff to throw out. Hopefully will wear in and not out.

    These were the repaired gears and housing. I am now convinced that some goose destroyed the housing and gears by using down rapids and driving the lead screw into the floor.

    Ken
    Hi Ken,

    I was over your way earlier today.... next time.

    Power feed on Z.... You'll be wanting a HBM next.


    Ray

  13. #58
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    Jun 2011
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    Australia east coast
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Hi Ken,

    I was over your way earlier today.... next time.

    Power feed on Z.... You'll be wanting a HBM next.


    Ray
    My Victoria U2 mill has power feed on Z. At least, it *did* before the previous owner broke it, a minor detail they forgot to mention in their eBay listing at the time... One of these days I'll fix it. Maybe.

    I think most of the older industrial horizontal mills had power Z as well as X & Y.

    PDW

  14. #59
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    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    Default

    It's odd - I bought the mill I did because it had power feed on all 3 axis. Most of the small English (universal) mills I saw at the time only had power feed on one axis. If you want to use a boring head you need that powered axis (I guess the other alternative is a HBM...).

    Michael

  15. #60
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Default

    PDW,

    I know that feeling of broken feeds and no mention in the ads. At least I managed to get this one working; Z engages OK but is hard to throw out. Sticks in and takes some effort.

    Michael.

    Manual Z is ok for the baby mills. The larger units give you a bit of a workout. Would hate to try it on one of those big Cinccy beasts; if in fact they have a manual lift at all.

    Ken

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