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  1. #31
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    Oct 2012
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toggy View Post
    A bit more progress today.

    Transfer gear assembly dry assembled and fitted into knee. Lead screw and drive shaft fitted to knee and repaired assembly. It is getting crowded in there.

    There is clearance between the transfer assembly and the knee housing and gear. Repaired unit fitted to lower section of universal table. It has gone back in the same place, but the pinion gear is not meshing correctly. The pinion shaft fits in a set place within the drive gearbox; but if need be I will just have to make a replacement shaft to set the pinion over a tad. I found that some idiot had previously placed a locating dowel in the oil gallery. Then the leadscrew covers have been ditched no doubt to gain access for lube (used diesel oil).Attachment 282355Attachment 282356Attachment 282357Attachment 282358Attachment 282359

    Those eagle eyed ones may have also noticed that the poor old girl is turning grey with age; after all she is nearly50. Another thing I found was that the lower section of the knee casting was filled with fine oily sand. After cleaning it out I found that the sandy area was unpainted. How did that casting sand stay there with all the machining operations. Obviously we just can't blame asian manufacturers for being slack.

    Ken
    which way is she not meshing? too low/high ? or too close/far?

    -Josh

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kyabram. Vic
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    632

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    Just got home so no work today.

    Jon, about a 3rd of the root of 1 tooth on that pinion is chipped. While I certainly can see the high speed benefits of lapping them; they are quite fine teeth and even though hardened are showing some wear as well as some ugly spots from impacts. I don't want to weaken them any more even though the lapping would most likely be in microns. Would be hard to isolate the open cage bearings directly under that crown wheel unless I was to make up a complete lapping fixture.


    Josh, presently low and far; from last nights fitup. Considering a new shim between assembly and table and then slightly elongating mounting stud holes with a new spacer shim to take most of the play out of the rear of the pinion. Hopefully this way I can get correct engagement over the full width of the pinion teeth. Once happy with the fit I can them relocate locating studs between assembly and table.

    Another couple of glasses red and it will become as clear as mud and I will sleep on it

    Ken

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
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    63
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    4,049

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    Quote Originally Posted by j.ashburn View Post
    Hi Ken,when you have your mesh of gears right any thoughts running them with a jury rig set up and re run them in with a lapping paste?the bearings could be isolated to avoid contamination A good 2 or 3 hours running wash out occasionally and replenish paste and oil mix.
    Without personally inspecting the gears would leave them as they are and run them not build them up.if it is shimmed up and back lash is correct.Spiral bevels are stronger than straight cut due to extra length of tooth.Cheers with 2 cents worth John.ps very nice machined job too.
    Spiral bevel gears run much quieter too don't they?

    Dean

  4. #34
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    Oct 2012
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toggy View Post
    Just got home so no work today.

    Jon, about a 3rd of the root of 1 tooth on that pinion is chipped. While I certainly can see the high speed benefits of lapping them; they are quite fine teeth and even though hardened are showing some wear as well as some ugly spots from impacts. I don't want to weaken them any more even though the lapping would most likely be in microns. Would be hard to isolate the open cage bearings directly under that crown wheel unless I was to make up a complete lapping fixture.


    Josh, presently low and far; from last nights fitup. Considering a new shim between assembly and table and then slightly elongating mounting stud holes with a new spacer shim to take most of the play out of the rear of the pinion. Hopefully this way I can get correct engagement over the full width of the pinion teeth. Once happy with the fit I can them relocate locating studs between assembly and table.

    Another couple of glasses red and it will become as clear as mud and I will sleep on it

    Ken
    well if you need to whip off a few micron here or there you know where we are.
    -J

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Thanks Josh,
    I would have to be quick though, can't imagine you coming home just for that though.

    I do have a couple of 10lb keys here.

    I do have the Elliot No5 T&CG with a small mag chuck. I am not entirely happy with the dry finish at the moment and the spindle bearing are sounding dry.
    No hope of getting any of that uber Kluber around here, but I have to go to Shep this morning so will go to the SKF place as Phil suggested and see if they have any spindle grease.

    Ken

  6. #36
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    Oct 2012
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toggy View Post
    Thanks Josh, I would have to be quick though, can't imagine you coming home just for that though. I do have a couple of 10lb keys here. I do have the Elliot No5 T&CG with a small mag chuck. I am not entirely happy with the dry finish at the moment and the spindle bearing are sounding dry. No hope of getting any of that uber Kluber around here, but I have to go to Shep this morning so will go to the SKF place as Phil suggested and see if they have any spindle grease. Ken
    If you don't have any luck at Drives for industry, swing around to western oil, they may have something.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    632

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    Josh,
    Went to BIS in New Dookie Rd. They had other SKF grease, but not what I wanted. More of a GP type.
    They did however have an Inox cartridge which is what I think it was RC mentioned. Synthetic, none melting/flinging, food grade (not that I need that), -30C or so to high temp., for high speed bearings, water pumps, rubber grease and on 'O' rings.

    Sounds like an old Demtel ad,"but wait, there's more".

    Sounds almost uber
    Anyway, finished the coffee and back to work.
    Ken

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Just a short update. I have had far to many distractions but have managed to have the gear teeth built up. After many days of blue, setup, rotate, strip, remove high points.blue etc, etc. ad nauseum I have the gear sets to acceptable tolerances. Yesterday and today was time to true up the spacer "shim" between the new base and its mounting point. Used the T & C grinder on manual surface grind mode to do the surfacing. Luckily I had a little bit of thickness to play with to allow for wear. This "shim" for want of a better word appears to have been shop made and could well have been surfaced on an anvil.

    Tomorrow some paint on the bare steel bits and I can final assemble. Here's hoping that all goes well.

    The welder I have known for ages and is no slouch as he worked welding underwater on rigs and the Melbourne & Sydney underpasses. My eldest son suggested him and said," He's a bl--dy freak, I have seen him tig weld a 1/2" gap on the back of an in trench 2' pipe using a mirror to see the job" I have enough trouble seeing the job just in front of me.

    Ken

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    632

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    Had an "interesting" job on the Rossi today. It was time to refit the cross/vertical feed selector on the side of the knee. The external part of the selector contains two coil springs inset into the body and topped with balls to engage detents on the knee. A shaft passes through the knee and engages a gear selector on the inside. The selector is held to the shaft with a taper pin.
    Working space is tight and those damn balls are proud of the body. A task for 4 hands so had to enlist the help of SWMBO.
    Tried everything to try and hold the damn balls in place; grease, magnetism, pressure. Nothing worked and at this stage I was swearing every time the balls fell out. Can't have been too bad though as the missus didn't curse me or the job. A quick think and washed down the bits with brake cleaner and then used a dab of Loctite superglue on the end of the springs then located them on the balls. Almost instant set up.
    Placed the male spring assemblies (because they now had ... mmm you work that one out) in their holes, pushed unit hard up to body and the missus fitted the selector on the shaft and fitted the taper pin. Just another one of those tasks you can't do alone.

    And no there are no pics as I am not about to disassemble it for pics. Besides that I would probably find mine glued to those springs.. She must have forgotten about that brown snake I saw beside the driveway to the workshop earlier.

    Ken

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kyabram. Vic
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    Back to Shepparton again this morning to pick up the way oil from Blackwoods. I settled on Shell Tonna 68. Their price was comparable to internet mail order; but that was a company I have not dealt with before, so decided on nest day almost local.

    Worst part was a total of 160kms for the 2 trips.

    Fiddling with the small jobs such as replacing one shot oiler tubes, making new fixtures for them, rewiring the feed travel stops, re-routing an oiler line so that I can get 45 deg right and 40 deg swivel on the universal, fitting the top section of the universal table certainly gobble up the time.

    Also replaced the "limp" 1/2" barb fitting for the table suds return with a 3/4" one. That was fun; close to the pedestal and required a 24.5mm hole for the 3/4" bsp barb fitting. The closest undersized drill I had was 22mm. so used it and opened it out with the die grinder. Luckily I had the correct tap (inherited from my father who received it in a "farmers toolkit" after being demobbed from WW2); but my largest tap wrench was a couple of mm's too small so used a large shifter. Desperate times require desperate measures Hard cast iron didn't help nor being old and creaky and bending over a fat gut.

    Took some pics this time.

    Ken008.jpg009.jpg

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    632

    Default They call themselves engineers !!

    I may have found the reason for the last crash (doesn't account for the other 2 though) The leadscrew had been fitted back asswards. The drive slot in the leadscrew isn't machined the full length of the screw and the drive key is to the right end. This means that full that full table travel in one direction is not available and the key can bind. A sudden stop when on rapids and driven by 2 hp.

    Also found that the leadnut was loctited in 45 degrees out which meant that the lube holes did not line up and locating screws couldn't be fitted. There was huge backlash on the table (after freeing it up) and the nut and anti backlash nut have had their acme thread worn to a sharp crest.

    I removed the nut and cleaned it up as best possible. It was then fitted to the shaft; the shaft slid in over the drive key and then the nut fitted with cap screws. Obviously bringing the leadscrew in from the other end was so much easier. At almost full adjustment of the two piece nut there is presently no backlash. I can't see this lasting for long and a nut repair will be needed.

    Pic 1 is of the housing for the 2 piece nut.

    Pics 2 & 3 are just of the bronze nuts.

    Ken

    001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg

  12. #42
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Canberra
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    39
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    Neat adjustment unit. Mine is far more complex, but the beauty is i can take one end off the table and adjust it with the table (and the screws thrust bearings) in place.
    My nuts also sit in an oil bath so there was very little wear.

    Does the Rossi have an overload clutch on the feeds? If not that would have been one hell of a crunch. (shudder)

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  13. #43
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    I won't make any wisecracks about your nuts being in oil.

    That copper tube under the housing is from the one shot oiler.

    For backlash adjustment it only a matter of bending down (getting real hard with the old age bulge) and the split nut is accessable. Loosen 2 cap bolts which go through those arcs; twist smaller nut to take out backlash and then retighten bolts.

    The leadscrew thrust bearings are angular contacts in a drop housing on the end of the table. Sliding fit ball bearing the other end.

    The feed motor and gear box which contains some sort of rapids clutch locates on the right side of the machine. It appeared to to be working OK and had no strange noises. Hopefully it will make it to the bench today. Another crane lift & move. Same as when I fit the table later today.

    Ken

  14. #44
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    Jun 2008
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    Victoria, Australia
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    Fascinating reading Ken, unravelling the history of the machine and previous owners mistakes makes for a great story.. sometimes it's incredibly difficult fixing things that have been assembled incorrectly in the past is a bit like detective work. Almost like an Agatha Christie novel with red herrings and misleading clues everwhere..

    CSI Italian Style..

    Good to hear it's coming back together.

    Regards
    Ray

  15. #45
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    Jun 2004
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    Kyabram. Vic
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    Thanks Ray.

    I thought it would have been more like "the BOB (boring old bugga) is back.

    Italian style, nah; more likely, "Der machinen vill vork, ve will not tolerate failure"

    Ewan, table is on and feed gearbox on the bench. I have split the motor from it and just as well as one pic shows the crud (probably dirt coolant and oil) inside the mounting flange. Also the retaining bolt on the gear was loose. Certainly a good idea to strip down. This area has also been tampered with and I think the feed motor may have been rebuilt. I haven't stripped it yet.

    A nice little multi-plate clutch for the rapid feed. Everything in the gear box seems to be working OK and I am a little loathe to strip it any further. Main worry is the innards of that lump on the side. I have part filled the box with kero and have left to soak overnight.

    The motor must have had a swarf and coolant ingestion problem and on the underside you can see the crud deflectors that have been fitted. 4 pieces of wood driven into the cooling vents.

    Shaft seals are very lacking on the machine. On the mounting flange there is fitted a square profile "seal". I don't know yet if it is a square O ring or a hydraulic type seal like main gearbox input pulley. Both have evidence of leakage. I have made up my mind to modify both by fitting modern type seals. May also fit an extra one to the end flange of the feed motor to keep out.

    Ken

    001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg005.jpg006.jpg

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