Thread: What's a Tap cost these days?

I need to tap half a dozen blind holes in 1/2" UNF......I didn't have any taps that size so I called into the local Australia wide tool supply merchant this morning (name withheld) ...simple enough ask - a taper and bottoming taps in HSS 1/2"x20....he said he only had the taper in stock and would order the other for me....but as there was a "special" sale on at the moment which ended Friday, he'd do me the "special" price on the ordered one as well and hold them for me to collect next time I'm in town., probably a couple of weeks - each tap priced at $40.95 so all up $81.90.......I was floored to say the least.....politely told him not to worry....

It's not a matter of going elsewhere as there aren't many places near I can source from.

When I got back home I ordered the same dies from a US supplier for US$4.85 each along with some other stuff to make up a post pack with $7 postage.........reckon the job can wait a couple of weeks for delivery at that price.

I didn't bother asking what brand taps the tool bloke here was selling - they stock Aussie stuff normally - so probably Sutton's which are are good quality, in fact I have a few of that brand already - have no idea what brand the ones I ordered from the US will be as previous taps and dies purchased from them have come from Poland, Israel, Germany, UK and India....whether the quality is the same as Sutton's, perhaps not; but that isn't the point...

Probably because I'm a grumpy old fart, I just don't reckon it's worth paying 800% more for local made taps when the imported stuff does the same job.......or is it just me? I'll gladly support local manufacturers - but there's a definite limit to that support .......

..............there rant over, I feel better now..........................Lee

Often you get what you pay for. I purchased a Chinese 12 mm x 1 die from an American seller. I used the die once on some 4140 and snapped part of the die off. The die was real cheap and the shipping not much more. I've got a bunch of dies (and taps) from the same seller, all fine thread versions, because the other same size dies from American or English manufacturers were at least ten times the price (40 to 80 dollars). Too much for one time usage but when the oriental version can't manage a single thread before self destructing we are left with a dilemma.

After the threading fiasco I cut the thread on the lathe which is not always an option.

Lee,
There are a number of Ebay sellers of quality, not too expensive taps and dies in both the States and England....and Bulgaria Here are a few I have dealt with.

items in Quality Taps and Dies store on eBay!
TAPS, END MILLS items in L and N ENTERPRISES store on eBay!
metric fine dies Mf, HSS drills items in ICT industrial cutting tools store on eBay!

BT

It's a good question, sorry I don't have a good answer, for taps I've taken to buying Sutton sets of 3 (taper/intermediate/bottoming) as needed, same for dies, just get the sizes as required.. but for odd one off things I just have the usual sets of cheaper crap..

I've seen the Greenfield brand recommended, and keep looking out for a good set at the right price.

As BT says, you usually get what you pay for...

Which makes me wonder about how good these ones might be?
THE ENGINEERS SHOP items - Get great deals on items on eBay Stores!

The best idea, I've had is to keep an eye out for auction lots from closing down engineering firms that might contain sets of reasonable quality.

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

It's a good question, sorry I don't have a good answer, for taps I've taken to buying Sutton sets of 3 (taper/intermediate/bottoming) as needed, same for dies, just get the sizes as required.. but for odd one off things I just have the usual sets of cheaper crap..

I've seen the Greenfield brand recommended, and keep looking out for a good set at the right price.

As BT says, you usually get what you pay for...

Which makes me wonder about how good these ones might be?
THE ENGINEERS SHOP items - Get great deals on items on eBay Stores!

The best idea, I've had is to keep an eye out for auction lots from closing down engineering firms that might contain sets of reasonable quality.

Regards
Ray

I have a couple of Greenfield tap handles Ray and their quality is second to none. I dare say their cutting tools are the same. The packaging on the Engineers Shop items looks very similar to my Chinese throw aways. I should have heeded the age old advice " buy quality and cry once"

BT

Hi,
I now bye mostly Dormer taps and dies, bought locally. The last ones i got were and m6 gun nose and die (HSS). I think the tap was less than $20 and the die about $30. Compared to some of the P&N dies i have it cuts like a hot knife through butter. I seem to remember my m12 gun nose was about $25 some years back. Being young i figure if i buy decent HSS taps and dies now they should last a long time.

I generally find GasWeld to be OK on their tap prices.

I've got three large sets of taps/dies, mostly made in Taiwan and they work OK. Also got plenty of Suttons (the best IMHO) and some Chinese metric Ebay ones in small sizes which are also quite OK provided you made sure they are hard steel rated when buying them.

Seems to be the local Aussie sport these days, ripping off the locals, when you go to buy something.

We really get taken to the cleaners on lots of stuff here.

Cheers

Rob

Originally Posted by Ueee

Hi,
I now bye mostly Dormer taps and dies, bought locally. The last ones i got were and m6 gun nose and die (HSS). I think the tap was less than $20 and the die about $30. Compared to some of the P&N dies i have it cuts like a hot knife through butter. I seem to remember my m12 gun nose was about $25 some years back. Being young i figure if i buy decent HSS taps and dies now they should last a long time.

Ewan
Thanks for the reminder on Dormer Taps & Dies.
Your mention of "Dormer" reminded me to score a brand new Dormer Machine Reamer 5/16th" with a MT1
tonight on EBAY.
Very happy !
regards
Bruce

Just to throw in a different perspective I buy no name brand taps from CTC for around $5.00 for a set of three. They are high speed steel and as far as I can tell as sharp as a Sutton and do the same job. I tap over 100 holes when I build a machine in steel, aluminium and the odd bit of acrylic. I use a tapping chuck on the drill press and hand tap a lot of holes were it is not possible to do it in the DP. On the tapping chuck I use spiral machine taps from the same source and they are around $9 for a single tap.

While I wouldn't rate them as neatly finished or as refined as a Sutton they do the equivalent job.

There's HSS and then again there's HSS. I try to only buy Dormer, SKF or Goliath. The steel used by Sutton and P&N isn't as hard as English HSS, it really shows when you try to cut stainless and the Aus taps or drills blunt far too quickly, while the Pommy gear just keeps on going.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

There's HSS and then again there's HSS. I try to only buy Dormer, SKF or Goliath. The steel used by Sutton and P&N isn't as hard as English HSS, it really shows when you try to cut stainless and the Aus taps or drills blunt far too quickly, while the Pommy gear just keeps on going.

yeah...tap some stainless the quality soon shows up
I got some taps from ctc but am yet to test them...they look good..but?

i didnt see RodM's post above about CTC..so I look forward to using them

I've bought lots of gear from CTC and it's all been excellent for the money, so I doubt the taps will be a let down.

Be interesting to hear how they go.

Cheers

Rob

I just looked at CTC and their taps are M2 Molybdenum so I am not sure where this sits in terms of hardness.
They are far better than the no name carbon taps that break when you sneeze. Not sure what constitutes carbon steel anyway.

I would be interested to find out if Molybdenum is better than HSS for a tap.

Originally Posted by rodm

I just looked at CTC and their taps are M2 Molybdenum so I am not sure where this sits in terms of hardness.
They are far better than the no name carbon taps that break when you sneeze. Not sure what constitutes carbon steel anyway.

I would be interested to find out if Molybdenum is better than HSS for a tap.

Hi Rod
M2 is your base grade HSS, most drill bits, woodturning chisels etc are M2 not sure what the moly would do, as far as i know it makes steel "tougher" but how that is different to cobalt making steel tougher i don't know. I think the cobalt makes the steel able to withstand higher temps before softening.

Cobolt makes the the steel even harder, production work involving stainless or tool steels generally use around 2% cobolt to stop them blunting. Molybdimum is added to assist in both the production of the tool and its use as it is a very slippery dry lubricating element; similar to how lead is added to some steels to assist in it's machinability.

High carbon steel is what used to be used for all cutting tools many many years ago before HS steels were available and is easily softened for machining and then can be hardened and tempered; when people talk about not turning steel blue when grinding because it'll lose its temper, this is what they are referring to. HSS copes much better.

Thanks Ewan,
A google on moly confirmed what you thought and it is used in armament, tool steels, etc. It also said it was used as an alternative for Tungsten in alloys. I have heard of it's use before in the alloy chrome moly.
I just ordered replacements for my 30 year old Whitworth taps from CTC. I rarely use Whitworth taps these days but you can bet the ones missing are the ones I'll need next.
I was hovering over buying UNC and UNF taps but I haven't had a need yet so decided to give it a miss. I hope I don't regret that.