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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5

    Default Scraping a plane sole

    Hi guys, I've been investigating an alternative method for flattening the soles of handplanes. The most common method is abrasive sheet lapping, but I haven't found this gives reliable results; and is completely useless when the sole is convex.

    I want to try scraping instead. I purchased a small granite surface plate from Carbatec and am working on acquiring some Prussian blue.

    I don't know what sort of scraper to use. I can use a small, Bahco scraper from eBay with a carbide blade. However, this would be expensive and the small size of the scraper handle would, I imagine, provide less control. I would also need diamond sharpening equipment, which would be further expense.

    Alternatively, I can use a hardened steel scraper, like this: FAITHFULL Engineers Hand Scraper 100mm (4in) Flat on eBay!. This is my preference. Although I'd have to sharpen it much more often, I've no issue with doing that; I've got all the gear that I'd need, and the experience to sharpen most things effectively. It's also cheap as chips. Given the relatively small amount of scraping I have to do, this seems to make better sense.

    My real confusion is about which shape of scraper I need. The Faithfull brand scrapers come in triangular, flat and half-round shapes. Which do I need for this job? Do I need different scrapers for different types of work (rough work versus fine work)?

    I'd be happy to use a different brand, incidentally, I simply can't find any.
    Cheers,

    Eddie

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney ( st marys )
    Age
    64
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    The shapes more to do with what your scraping.
    For what you are doing you would just use the flat type.
    Have you considered just using an old file or if capable welding or brazeing a piece of HSS to a suitable length of bar.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Fabulous Gold-plated Coast.
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,251

    Default

    You may find that using an HSS blade will be an excercise in constant honing.

    Ebay has cheap diamond wheels, but you can also buy a carbide scraper already formed on a 90mm radius (which is a good all-purpose curve)

    One the curve is formed it only will require lapping every hour or so. If you can get or make a cast iron or aluminium wheel about 100 to 150mm dia you can charge it with cheap diamond paste (ebay) of 5 to 10 micron size.

    If you spend a bit you'll be able to do all your soles then sell the kit to the next woodworker after posting how great your results were!

    Greg
    It's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    Eddie search this forum for scraping...some good info are in them

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    Hi Eddie,
    Where about in Melbourne are you?

    Stuart

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Stustoys, I live in the Eastern suburbs near Oakleigh. I'd be delighted if I could beg borrow or steal (or of course buy) a scraper from you, if that's what you have in mind. Please pm me. Or if you have a recommendation for sourcing parts in Melbourne, please fire away - I don't mind a drive.

    Greg, when you say constant honing, do you mean more than once every fifteen minutes, say?
    Cheers,

    Eddie

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Fabulous Gold-plated Coast.
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,251

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snafuspyramid View Post
    Stustoys, I live in the Eastern suburbs near Oakleigh. I'd be delighted if I could beg borrow or steal (or of course buy) a scraper from you, if that's what you have in mind. Please pm me. Or if you have a recommendation for sourcing parts in Melbourne, please fire away - I don't mind a drive.

    Greg, when you say constant honing, do you mean more than once every fifteen minutes, say?
    Yes. i read that ansteel acrapwr blade needs touching up every couple of minutes. I have only ever used carbide though so I can't speak with aurhority.

    Greg
    It's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dural NSW
    Age
    82
    Posts
    1,203

    Default Plane Scraping

    Eddie
    Here are some photos I took when scraping & restoring a No 3 Stanley plane.
    The Scraper alongside the Plane was made out of a metal file by me about 55 yrs ago.
    Its done a lot of scraping.
    The file teeth, were ground off, the end of the file heated to orange & hand forged, to thin & widen the cutting end, & allowed to cool slowly.
    The cutting tip was then heated to cherry red, quenched in oil,& ground honed to the correct profile.
    The cutting edge remained glass hard, not tempered.
    Being carbon steel, it is easily honed on a conventional oil stone, to maintain sharpness.
    The other photo shows a Carbide Insert Scraper I made before the last Scraping course in Melb back in April this year.
    The Carbide is superior, however I am offering the Carbon Steel ( File) alternative as something that is simple low cost & it works.
    regards
    Bruce

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    I'm impressed Bruce. That No.3 is older than you. If my memory serves me well, Stanley introduced the high knob in 1919.

    BT

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dural NSW
    Age
    82
    Posts
    1,203

    Default No 3 Stanley Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    I'm impressed Bruce. That No.3 is older than you. If my memory serves me well, Stanley introduced the high knob in 1919.

    BT
    Spot on Bob.
    This was an item I purchased on EBay. The only purchase on E Bay that I have not been satisfied with.
    When I received it, I was very dissapointed, as it was not as described.
    The rear handle in Beech was all twisted & warped.The rest of the plane including the brass adjuster needed work
    So it was one of those moments, & I thought "Stuff It" dont complain just fix it.
    I made a new handle out of American Walnut coated it with shellac, then steel wool & wax. Replaced the Blade (Iron) with a new Lie Nielsen A2 steel.
    Tuned the metal adjusters & matched the back iron to the Blade (Iron) & rescraped the base.
    Now its one of my favourite planes.
    Works well, & as you say, has a history about it.
    regards
    Bruce

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    Hi Eddie,
    I've been thinking, but the problem is I dont have any HSS scrapers and you cant sharpen carbide. I guess if I make up a scraper and send you off with 8 sharp edges you should be able to get a plane done.

    Though I did grind up an old file I haven't tried it again since I got a "real" scraper. I can only assume that if carbon steel or HSS had anything going for them Phil and Marko would be using them.

    Stuart

    p.s. It might take me a while to get my together. I need another job! lol
    Last edited by Stustoys; 29th Aug 2012 at 12:30 AM. Reason: p.s.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Hi Eddie

    I second the old file route. I have scraped probably 5 or 6 planes soles using an old mill file.

    If you are not fussy, there is no need to do any heat treating to the file, just carefully grind the teeth completely off on the tip of the file (don't let it blue or you will have to re-harden) in the cutting area and just enough on the rest of the file to make it comfortable to hold.

    I found that the the quickest way to sharpen was just a quick touch on the disc on my cheapo belt sander. It seemed to me that the slight burr left by the sander gave the scraper a more agressive bite. One sharpen would generally be good for one bluing so 30 seconds on the belt sander and I was right to go again

    For a flat surface, I just use a piece of thick glass. It may not be a s flat as a granite slab, but it was more than adequate for a plane sole.

    Regards

    John

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rockhampton
    Age
    62
    Posts
    6

    Default

    I also have done the old file thing, a 10 or 12" long flat, just ground the teeth off 1/2" up the file and a radius on the end, shaped on the bench grinder AL oxide wheel 40# does leave it a bit rough but it did what I wanted a hone on a stone would have given a better finish


    Pete

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,541

    Default

    Stuart, the main difference between a converted file and a carbide scraper in use is that the steel scraper needs sharpening often - like every few cycles.People like Phil and Marko would not use one if they could help it because their productivity would decline massively.

    For a job the size of a plane, a steel scraper should be alright. It will just take a little longer.

    Michael

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    Hi Micheal,
    I didnt mean to imply anything against converted files, just that carbide must do as good a job(so the lasting longer between sharpenings is a bonus). In fact I've decided as I planned on scraping my plane, I'll dig out the old file and give it a side by side with the carbide.

    Stuart

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