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30th Jul 2012, 03:19 PM #31Pink 10EE owner
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- Aug 2008
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- near Rockhampton
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- 6,216
Spindle oil..... maybe an ISO32 oil...
Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.
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30th Jul 2012, 11:27 PM #32Senior Member
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- Jun 2008
- Location
- Newport, Victoria
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- 117
I haven't done so much on the grinder itself most of the progress is around getting ready to scrape the grinder.
With the surface plate on the stand it was time to check some of the grinder castings. After a couple of "blue-ings" it was quickly apparent that hand scraping was not going to be the most efficient way forward. A Biax would come in very handy however a DYI alternative was really the only option. After seeing what Stuart had done I thought "son of Bunix" was in order.
Attachment 217708
After pulling it apart I decided that it probably wasn't worth trying to make it an adjustable stroke length. So I changed the stroke from 20mm to 10mm. I figure its job is to move alot of metal. I profiled the head attachment so that I could use the scraper in a reasonably flat position like a real Biax. I spent more time making the blade holders. I used some O1 gage plate and heat treated it to have a bit of spring. I also incorporated some rubber between the blade and the plate holding it on. Again to mirror what a Biax does. I'm using some EVA rubber, I might have to change this once I get a feel for using it.
Another job was to try to procure some case iron to make up some gauges. The smallest size I could find was some 80mm x 30mm x 1050mm 4E grey cast iron from Surman metals in South Australia. I wanted to slice it up the middle and was wondering how to manage it without standing at a bandsaw for a couple of hours. This was the solution:
Attachment 217709
I think its something the dodgy brothers would be quite proud of and something worksafe would be appalled at. Its basically a table to support the iron and a bit of rope to tension two rubber straps. Once the tension is applied the iron is pushed past the blade. I also angled the bandsaw to get some help from gravity. About half way through I decided to stick some packing tape on the underside of the iron and some on the wood to give a more slippery surface. It worked a treat, it was about two times as fast. If I was doing this often i'd probably just make a sub bracket which could tilt the whole bandsaw to a point to rely on gravity alone.
Once I had the cast iron cut I milled up a 55deg dovetail gauge.
Attachment 217716
There's a bit of overhand from the vice but I was surprised how flat it turned out. The 55deg angle was milled with a ball mill so there's a very slight scallop but its probably more accurate than if I had tried to make up a fixture to hold the cast iron at 55deg.
It's now sitting on our wood stove to relieve before I get around to scraping it. I don't know if it will help or this sort of thing is a urban myth....
Christian
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31st Jul 2012, 01:13 AM #33Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Melbourne
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- 9,088
Hi Christian,
It was Joe that got me started on Bunix(it even has a handle now)
Nice work around on the bandsaw. Interesting you needed to get cast bar from SA, I miss my Bohler just down the road.
What sort of mill do you have again?
I'd think cast bar would be stress relieved, but I cant see it doing any harm.
Stuart
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31st Jul 2012, 01:28 AM #34
Nice work, Christian!
Love the 'son of Bunnix' - looks very mich related to my 'Aldix'
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/ho...5/#post1390920
I look forward to seeing your dovetail gauge scraped and blued!
Cheers,
Joe
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31st Jul 2012, 12:04 PM #35Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- adelaide
- Posts
- 91
Thanks for the drawings, exelent, will get some photos when i get back from Brisbane
are you going to do a full scrape of the ways on your machine ? ( your power scraper) or are you tooling up to check them ?
i would have thought the i the machine was badly worn it would be easyer to grind out the wear then hand scrape the final fit
hercus and heavymech are both set up to do way grinding here in adelaide (the ways are both quite small cmpared to a lathe) there bound to be loads more places in Melbourne
Thanks again
Fred
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31st Jul 2012, 05:45 PM #36Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Newport, Victoria
- Posts
- 117
Fred: The grinder is in reasonably good condition so I don't think i'll need to send it off to be ground. Its also not a huge machine so I think it will be a good one to practise scraping / re-conditioning before tackling something bigger. If it was really bad I could put it on the mill (Tormach PCNC1100) for a skim cut and then scrape.
Stuart: With respect to the cast iron I rang a couple of places in Melbourne. One could give me whatever size I needed so long as I ordered 5 tonnes. The other had some 50x50 but that would had to have come from WA. I ended up contacting Durabar in the USA and they said that Surman had got some cast iron off them.
Joe: Sorry I forgot to mention your Aldix. I took inspiration from your build, especially the aluminium head part. So my machine is "son of Aldix and Bunix"... not sure which one is male and which one is female )
Christian
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31st Jul 2012, 06:40 PM #37Banned
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Melbourne Australia
- Posts
- 1,376
G’day Christian.
Sorry I’m late to this party. You might give some consideration to going to Synthetic grease, and neglecting the oil lube in the spindle. That’s what we did with Ray G’s Tool & Cutter grinder.
For the small amount you would need, I’d have that here.
Log was spot on, about the “spigot” locking the outer rings into the housing. 1.3 mm positive pinch is a bit excessive. That causes problems, you have to be very careful to pull that front labyrinth plate up so that it stays square, and applies equal pressure all around the bearing outer ring.
If you look in the back of the RHP book under tolerances and limits, that front cap should have the same squareness spec as the bottom of the bore in the spindle housing. That can be tricky to maintain when you have a 1.3mm air gap to the main housing face. Its easy to cock that cap over, if your note very careful in sequentially torquing up the bolts in that retainer.
That universal cylindrical grinder I have here, that’s the only thing it ever grinds, those two faces, the one that hits the bearing outers, and the one that kisses the housing face. However a bearing that size, I’d grind it to about 0.015mm positive lock up.
If your ever on my side of town, feel free to drop in, even if you bring the parts with you.
Regards Phil.
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31st Jul 2012, 11:37 PM #38Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Newport, Victoria
- Posts
- 117
Hello Phil,
Thanks for the offer of grinding the parts, I might just take you up on that.. at least I my drop over with the parts for you to have a look at them. I still need to spray the spindle head and scrape the mating part to the column so it may be awhile off.
With regards to the grease is that the "Kluber" that is sometimes mentioned? What would be the advantage of that? Is that something that would need to be renewed every so often?
Regards, Christian
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1st Aug 2012, 12:17 AM #39Banned
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Melbourne Australia
- Posts
- 1,376
Most certainly. In your case NBU 15. In later years - 1980’s, the label would have said Lubed for life. It really is that good. Benefit’s are that you can never turn it on without lubrication, just in case you forget to oil it that once.
You’re a young bloke, I’d expect you would have to re-lube maybe once in your life time. In Ray G’s case, consensus was that it would be Josh’s problem, for the next re-lube / bearings.
Phil.
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6th Aug 2012, 12:39 PM #40Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Sydney
- Posts
- 3,112
Fred it looks like this machine is quite similar in many respects to the Hercus surface grinder I apparently didn't strip and rebuild. They're not especially common, but if you're in Adelaide it may be worthwhile visiting Hercus with photos of your machine, and seeing if they have any bits 'n' pieces left over from their surface grinders. It may be possible to easily modify Hercus components to suit your machine.
Good luck with it.
Pete
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6th Aug 2012, 03:07 PM #41.
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- Nov 2008
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- Perth WA
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- 71
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- 6,458
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17th Jul 2013, 07:09 PM #42New Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Victoria
- Posts
- 1
How's the progress?
Grover
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17th Jul 2013, 10:14 PM #43Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Newport, Victoria
- Posts
- 117
Back in February member GZBMW posted a Macson Surface Grinder for sale:
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f223/m...rinder-166499/
One thing I noticed was that it still had the original spark guard/arrestor on it. I hadn't seen that in any other Macson surface grinder that has popped up on the internet. GZBMW was kind enough to let me measure it.
I've attached measured drawings, an IGES file and some pictures for anyone that is interesting in re-creating one.
macson spark guard.pdfspark_guard_iges.zip
Christian
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18th Jul 2013, 11:00 AM #44Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Newstead Victoria
- Posts
- 459
[QUOTE=CGroves;1673975]Back in February member GZBMW posted a Macson Surface Grinder for sale:
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f223/m...rinder-166499/
One thing I noticed was that it still had the original spark guard/arrestor on it. I hadn't seen that in any other Macson surface grinder that has popped up on the internet. GZBMW was kind enough to let me measure it.
I've attached measured drawings, an IGES file and some pictures for anyone that is interesting in re-creating one.
macson spark guard.pdfspark_guard_iges.zip
Christian[/QUOTE
Good morning, just been reading right through this thread. I have a Jones/ Shipman 2A here and been using straight 40 grade hydraulic oil for the spindle.As been outlined an oversight of not checking or filling the oiler [sight drip glass here] can fry the bearings in no time.Never considered the grease.Is it readily available?
Also noting your X ways are supported on tapered wheels with the flat spring for dampening.Mine has 2 broken ones as i suspected that having not a nice feel to a manual table slide.just an ask here by the learned brains trust here are these springs available?
as this has not been on my priority to do list i did find some clock spring to use,should the original parts be unavailable.
There are manuals available for these machines in US the bloke that has a huge collection of machine manuals
and sells re prints abt 49 dollars us from memory. Any clues gents? John.
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18th Jul 2013, 06:58 PM #45Golden Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Location
- Sydney
- Posts
- 505
Christian,
Thanks for that - my Macson bench SG has an unattractive thin sheet Al guard in place of the original, so your drawing is right on target.
Not to hijack your thread, but by way of comparison my my SG has a 4-arm capstan for the long travel (rather than the more common 3-arm type), so I am wondering if that makes it an earlier model (see photos). There is no oil cup on the spindle housing, just a neat, well fitted screwed cap which looks original. It came with a makers plate (interesting!) and a Serial No plate which looks to have been stamped after lunchtime refreshments .
The adjustable stops for the long travel are missing on mine, and I presume the originals are spring buffers.
Cheers,
Bill
PS Apologies - cant work out how to fix the orientation of the first photo.
IMG_7484.jpgIMG_7488.jpgIMG_7483.jpgIMG_7487.jpg
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