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Thread: Turret spindle thingy project
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7th May 2012, 07:33 PM #16
Hi Mark,
Looks like you have the same "team" working on your spurret as i do working on Freddie. Coming along nicely
I like BobL's suggestion of leaving the belts on the spindles and just changing the one on the motor, i think that would make it easier. I would have suggested something with a little more beef than 1hp, but that is what most 8" grinders have so it should have plenty of go still, although there would be more friction in your system than in a normal grinder.
On another note, would you be prepared to cast some mounts up for selling? I for one would be interested. I have one really old similar spindle, but would like a few more.
Ewan.
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7th May 2012, 08:12 PM #17Golden Member
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Hi Bob, I did check out your sketch of suggested mods, that would be a preferable arrangement for a single ended spindle. The pic below shows the first completed spindle unit, so it'll have wheels/mops on both ends with integral pulley/drive washers to keep things compact. I'm certainly going to raise the motor height as high as it will go on the column. The motor will swing in an almost horizontal arc at the end of some hinged 25mm RHS. Having the motor closer, maybe on the front of the column should also bring it's pulley within easy reach for the belt changes, worst case scenario is that I hang three motors on the underside of the channel arms and have fixed belts, although balance could be a bit iffy.
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7th May 2012, 08:20 PM #18Golden Member
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Geez Log, I though "I" invented the integral pulley-drive washer idea . You're right about the spindles once being commonly available, I think a lot of people rolled their own machines like table saws as late as the 1980's. I'd like to see which brand spindles you have on hand, I've pulled apart an old one recently and it was roughly made especially the shaft. I expect the bearing shop that sold it made most of the profit and they were wholesaled cheaply.
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7th May 2012, 08:29 PM #19Golden Member
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Hi Ueee, this weekend I was feeling energetic so I really went to town on the job instead of thinking about it all day. The motor I have is nameplate rated at 1Hp but the manufacturers in Australia used to cheat a bit in those days: I know for a fact that Crompton Parkinson for example used exactly the same frame, rotor and windings for their motors from 1Hp to 3Hp. The only difference was the current rating of the circuit breaker, by changing the overload breaker to a higher current you got the more powerful motor. I don't know for sure my GMF is the same way though.
As far as selling raw castings go, I'll have to have a think about it and work out a cost for one. The bronze unit is very heavy about 4-5 kilos, I'll have to weigh the second one and see, so for the current price of bronze at $15 per kilo, that bronze one would have a material cost of $60 without any other costs like labour and gas to melt it. The aluminium ones weigh almost nothing by comparison and the silicon aluminium is actually stronger than bronze by a large margin.
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7th May 2012, 09:37 PM #20Senior Member
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Old commercial spindle assemblies
Here are the pics of the two assemblies I have.
The double ended one has 3205D stamped on the top surface. Overall length is 250mm. Just a few months ago I looked at this spindle and thought I'll make a left hand nut for it, luckily I have the required 5/8 inch UNF tap available.
The single ended one has 3205U stamped on the top surface. Overall length is 220mm.
Both are pretty well made, I had the single ended one apart a few years ago and there is a steel sleeve cast in at each end of the Aluminium casting, these have then been bored for the bearings. You can just see in the two pics a slight protrusion at each end of the housing, they are the ends of the steel sleeves. I just double checked with a file and a magnet and they are steel.
Any more info needed just holler.
EDIT. Just thought, maybe the steel sleeve goes right through, ie. one piece, good possibility as the sleeve would act as a core.
Cheers.
If I'm not right, then I'm wrong, I'll just go bend some more bananas.
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7th May 2012, 09:48 PM #21Golden Member
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Thanks, they look a lot better made than the examples I've seen so far. They look about the same size as my 150mm long unit. Having a steel sleeve to cast around would simplify things a lot.
Some cheaper units were simply bored full length and a length of pipe pressed in for the bearing shoulders. the shafts were simply machined at one end for the bearing fit and then end for ended in a three jaw and machined again with no concern for journal alignment.
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7th May 2012, 09:57 PM #22Senior Member
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hey where did the pics go in my previous post, someone stole the pics, I'll sort it asap
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7th May 2012, 10:07 PM #23Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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They are really very nice looking spindles and I'd be interested in some ally ones as well, well at least two anyway.
Now that I see the pulley location that makes it even more of a reason to leave the belts on the wheel end and disconnect at the motor end.
One thing I have already noticed about my flat trigrinder arrangement is that it is possible in most cases to access 2 grinders (ie up to 4 wheels) without rotating the turret which means much less rotation that I thought would be required. This is not as likely to be feasible with a single motor or tilted turret
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8th May 2012, 12:34 AM #24Golden Member
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I'll mention this here as I'm just passing on sales info to those who are interested rather than actually selling anything:
I spoke to Peter the foundry owner, he's happy to sell raw unmachined aluminium castings for $30 each plus postage. He's got my permission to use my spindle patterns for the pictured spindles in this thread which use the 20mm inner race diameter 6204 bearings. It'll have to wait though until he's doing another casting run. From memory it's certified 2000 series high silicon aluminium so the castings machine nicely but it does erode the tool steel a bit. PM me if you want his contact details and I'll give you his phone number & email.
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8th May 2012, 01:57 AM #25Dave J Guest
I haven't commented in this thread yet, but have been watching your progress. Your doing some great work there and some good ideas.
Keep up the good work.
Dave
PS
Those castings look nice, and I don't think that is a bad price.
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8th May 2012, 10:33 AM #26Golden Member
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Thanks for the encouragement Dave, on another note 2000 series aluminium is apparently copper based, will find out today what alloy is used in the castings.
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8th May 2012, 10:27 PM #27Golden Member
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For those who are interested in rolling their own spindles, Peter dug up a sample of a larger casting also available for $45 which was originally made for imperial bearings and a one inch shaft but which should easily take a common 25mm shaft bearing. This casting is actually easier to machine than my smaller version as there's no rib along the bottom for an oil sump. It's designed to be clamped in a 3 jaw chuck and bored at one end to bearing size, then you machine a couple of "Witness" marks on the outside and then remount in the chuck and check alignment using the witness marks before boring the second journal.
I've seen this particular casting used for 300mm grinder wheels, with a taper on both ends of the shaft for buff mops and also as a 12" disc sander and 2" belt linisher unit.
I'm including a sample of my casting to indicate relative size between the two.
Cheers,
Mark
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14th May 2012, 12:30 AM #28Golden Member
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It's been a busy week but I found some time on the weekend to work on the project and mount the motor, this time round the front of the column. The motor gets lifted by a cable up the column along two slides made from 25x25mm angle, the cable is run over two pulleys up top and then connected to a foot pedal. It all sounds a bit complicated but gives 40 cm of motor travel up and down the column. There's a fair bit of belt slack which makes it possible to fit and remove the belts from the spindle with one hand if you keep the belts on the motor drive pulley. The turret locking mechanism still has to be fitted but I'm happy with it all so far and there's room to modify things if it proves difficult to swap belts.
Still can't think of a good name for it yet....tried combining turret and spindle in a different way to arrive at: "Turdle" which I'll save as a name if the whole thing proves unworkable as a concept .
Motor is down in this photo pulling out any belt slack.
Pedal depressed to raise the motor and slacken the belts.
Belts come on and off easily with one hand.
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14th May 2012, 12:37 AM #29
Nice work Mark
I reackon the biggest pain will be the fact that you have two belts to move and not one. I know you made the pulleys out of weights, which limited your options, but why not just go for a single A or B section belt.
I still like the name Spurret, certainly turdle only brings one thought to mind........
Ewan
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14th May 2012, 12:42 AM #30Golden Member
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Hi Ueeee, the M section belts have a much smaller recommended bend radius than the A or B section belts. Belt life goes down very drastically if you exceed the recommended bend radius. So using the M section belt lets me use a smaller pulley but I need two to transmit the power.
Edit: So for some higher speed wheels I can get the required RPM with a much smaller pulley than the ones made so far (90mm dia).
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