Thread: What did you learn today?

Originally Posted by jhovel

Exactly how/why? Oh, and what (current) subsidy?

Well, it do differ state to state so I'll work up a reply tomorrow.

Something to ponder - why is China, likely the worlds largest manufacturer, and mostly exporter, of wind generators and solar panels, building (bringing on line), on average, one new coal fired power station every two weeks ?

Why stick with coal when solar panels and wind generators can do every thing ?

Coal or not wasn't the question, really. It was how or why your power bill would be halved by NOT generating your own with apparently subsidised solar panels or wind generators?
What subsidies are there left now except for the coal industry?
Of course any energy sources which are not continuous can't do 'everything', but that is just a matter of finding an energy storage medium that is cheaper than hydro dams. Australia is overall too flat for a lot of hydro dams, in countries where there are high mountains opr plateaus, hydor storage generators are the cheapest option for storing power. We have to wait for cheaper batteries or cheaper solar high temperature splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen for fuel cell storage....

By the way, China installs about a power station EACH week. However, their coal power capacity UTILISATION is less than 54% and falling. Why they are building more coal power stions than they need and use is a mystery. One imagines that they can't make enough renewable power to match their needs. Their renewable generating capacity AND untilisation however is growing by around 20% a year for the past two years and increasing rapidly. China is quickly becoming 'green'.
Have a look at http://www.abc.net.au/environment/ar...12/4233710.htm for information from May this year.

Originally Posted by jhovel

What subsidies are there left now except for the coal industry?

The coal industry makes a *huge* profit and it isn't really subsidised at all.

The so-called subsidy is, they don't pay road tax on diesel that they use off road. If this is a subsidy, so is everything that you do that you're not paying tax on and the farming/fishing businesses are also subsidised.

As for wind power, the less said the better. It's an expensive *and* unreliable ripoff. Solar is considerably better and improving steadily. Wind power is never going to improve because it's basic limitations are geographical and unpredicable, variable winds.

PDW

Hi Guys,

Lets all remain calm and keep it all civil with each other.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and lets all keep it at that.

Nobody wants to start the first ruckus on the forum.

It is not a milestone we are seeking.


Have a nice day!

Grahame

Originally Posted by jhovel

Coal or not wasn't the question, really. It was how or why your power bill would be halved by NOT generating your own with apparently subsidised solar panels or wind generators?
What subsidies are there left now except for the coal industry?
Of course any energy sources which are not continuous can't do 'everything', but that is just a matter of finding an energy storage medium that is cheaper than hydro dams. Australia is overall too flat for a lot of hydro dams, in countries where there are high mountains opr plateaus, hydor storage generators are the cheapest option for storing power. We have to wait for cheaper batteries or cheaper solar high temperature splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen for fuel cell storage....

By the way, China installs about a power station EACH week. However, their coal power capacity UTILISATION is less than 54% and falling. Why they are building more coal power stions than they need and use is a mystery. One imagines that they can't make enough renewable power to match their needs. Their renewable generating capacity AND untilisation however is growing by around 20% a year for the past two years and increasing rapidly. China is quickly becoming 'green'.
Have a look at http://www.abc.net.au/environment/ar...12/4233710.htm for information from May this year.

"Coal or not wasn't the question, really. It was how or why your power bill would be halved by NOT generating your own with apparently subsidised solar panels or wind generators?..."

All ties together does it not ?

Power costs are directly affecting Australian industry. e.g. Machine shops live on consistent cheap power.


"...What subsidies are there left now except for the coal industry?..."

I'm not aware of any special subsidies for coal. Perhaps an example can be provided ?


"...We have to wait for cheaper batteries or cheaper solar high temperature splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen for fuel cell storage..."

Agreed. I would add though, why are we wasting the nations wealth and potential on an inefficient technology before it is commercially viable ? ...if ever.

Cont...

Originally Posted by YBAF

"...We have to wait for cheaper batteries or cheaper solar high temperature splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen for fuel cell storage..."

Agreed. I would add though, why are we wasting the nations wealth and potential on an inefficient technology before it is commercially viable ? ...if ever.

Cont...

It's the triumph of ideology over engineering. Too many people these days really do believe that wishing will make it so.

Personally I'm not letting go of my 90A per phase 3 phase 415V power supply.

Funny thing is, I freighted home a 10kW 415V 3 phase in/out UPS from my last trip to Sydney. NFI what I'm going to do with it as yet but it was free (until it wouldn't fit in the truck and I had to pay freight anyway). Should run my house quite nicely when the next power outage occurs, if I can be bothered wiring it up (and the batteries are still good).

WRT subsidies, the feed-in tariff for wind power is utterly, utterly unrealistic and if they got paid commercial rates for their low reliability power, it'd be in the order of 4c/kW hour or less and they'd all go out of business. They live off of public subsidies.

PDW

What did I learn today (well last week in reality)?

I learned that the the Tough bench drill that I lifted onto a stand 30 years ago must have got heavier over time because I ended up underneath it on the floor when I tried to shift it today. I also learned that it's a bloody silly idea to (a) try and lift things that weigh 150% of your body weight when there's no-one else at home and (b) it's an even sillier idea to put your mobile phone over the other side of the workshop before attempting the lift so it's out of reach when you need help.

I now have a floor crane after a bit of none-too-subtle advice from the better half.

Originally Posted by Gavin Newman

What did I learn today (well last week in reality)?

I learned that the the Tough bench drill that I lifted onto a stand 30 years ago must have got heavier over time because I ended up underneath it on the floor when I tried to shift it today. I also learned that it's a bloody silly idea to (a) try and lift things that weigh 150% of your body weight when there's no-one else at home and (b) it's an even sillier idea to put your mobile phone over the other side of the workshop before attempting the lift so it's out of reach when you need help.

I now have a floor crane after a bit of none-too-subtle advice from the better half.

Thank goodness you are OK.
Perhaps a good reminder for the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Thank goodness you are OK.
Perhaps a good reminder for the rest of us.

Too late, it took me a badly fractured arm & pelvic girdle some years ago to learn a similar lesson.....

These days I have a lot of rigging & lifting gear.

BTW, those Chinese shop cranes rated at 2 tonnes? Take a *very* careful look at the castors supporting the legs. There is *no way* they are rated at anything like that. I'd guesstimate 200kg at best. Be very, very careful moving suspended loads. I move items the minimum possible to clear then lower to as close to the floor as feasible, preferably onto a pallet jack for moving about. The pallet jack is one of my most used tools.

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

Too late, it took me a badly fractured arm & pelvic girdle some years ago to learn a similar lesson.....

These days I have a lot of rigging & lifting gear.

BTW, those Chinese shop cranes rated at 2 tonnes? Take a *very* careful look at the castors supporting the legs. There is *no way* they are rated at anything like that. I'd guesstimate 200kg at best. Be very, very careful moving suspended loads. I move items the minimum possible to clear then lower to as close to the floor as feasible, preferably onto a pallet jack for moving about. The pallet jack is one of my most used tools.

PDW

I was very lucky, just lots of bruises and very sore. At 65kg I don't have a lot of padding! It's a horrible feeling when you realise that you are no longer in control of the situation.
On the crane front, I was very fortunate as I managed to find a second-hand Adelaide made floor crane rated at 2500 kg complete with the original proof test certificate an periodic inspection certificates from the previous owners. It's built like a battleship (4" square thick wall RHS)

Gees Gavin, thank goodness you are ok.

Phil

Today I learnt you must set limits. Some limits are set by others, some set by finance, some set by how big a shed you have. The limit set today was not by LOML (that look is for the 3" she is off the ground) but by shear size.

H&F have some wonderful big boy toys spotted these in Sydney store today.

Originally Posted by PDW

It's the triumph of ideology over engineering. Too many people these days really do believe that wishing will make it so.

People forget solar panels are also heavily subsidised as they are made in China by people working to wages and conditions that would be highly illegal in Australia... We used to make them in Australia, but the costs became too great, and the sydney plant moved overseas..

Originally Posted by .RC.

People forget solar panels are also heavily subsidised as they are made in China by people working to wages and conditions that would be highly illegal in Australia... We used to make them in Australia, but the costs became too great, and the sydney plant moved overseas..

Not sure I'd really put that in the same class of subsidy, especially as - WRT solar panels - a lot are made in Germany, with German wage structures. In fact I won't have a Chinese grid tie inverter (don't have solar ATM) I'd insist on a German one. There have been issues with some of the Chinese grid tie inverters. The panels seem OK so far.

3 things kill a lot of Aussie manufacturing. High wages combined with low productivity, small local market and inability to penetrate the big overseas markets. This last due to restrictive tariffs as much as any failure of Aussie management IMO.

The Germans can do it because they combine high wages with high productivity plus a top quality well engineered product, have an open market in the hundreds of millions of people and an export culture.

Point is there are other ways to do things than the Chinese way with rotten wages, conditions and high pollution, but we're kind of screwed here all round for a bunch of reasons.

PDW

Originally Posted by Gavin Newman

I was very lucky, just lots of bruises and very sore. At 65kg I don't have a lot of padding! It's a horrible feeling when you realise that you are no longer in control of the situation.
On the crane front, I was very fortunate as I managed to find a second-hand Adelaide made floor crane rated at 2500 kg complete with the original proof test certificate an periodic inspection certificates from the previous owners. It's built like a battleship (4" square thick wall RHS)

Hi Gavin,
Glad to hear that you're OK, bruises disappear after a while, reminders of breaks are there always.
Any chance of some pics and details of your crane, looking at getting one, but if the Chinese ones are crappy, I'd rather build one myself. At least if it fails I'll know who to blame, Gavin for showing me pics of his. Just joking really.
Kryn