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  1. #1
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    Default Surface grinder does Cylindrical Work

    Here is a set up I did this morning on the Churchill surface grinder.
    Recently purchased a small boring head for my mill with the idea of using it in addition, as an offset tailstock centre in the Hercus so as not to disturb the accuracy & fiddling with resetting the tailsock.
    I needed a HSS 60 degree centre to fit into the boring head.
    Using a piece of 3/8" dia HSS set it up on the surface grinder to reduce one end down to 5/16" to fit the boring head & the other end to a 60 degree centre point.
    Set up the indexing collet off the Hercus lathe using an original cross slide piece I had set aside after purchasing the extended cross slide to replace it.Cleaned it up & its into service
    Now its got a new use, I can also use the fixture on the mill as well as the grinder & the lathe.
    Got the idea from Anorak Bob, after seeing his machined piece to accept the indexing fixture. Thanks Bob.
    The pictures tell it all, the surface grinder does a fine job in small cylindrical grinding & can be used for some basic tool & cutter grinding.
    regards
    Bruce

  2. #2
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    Nov 2008
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    Perth WA
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    Default

    Nice example of improvisation Bruce. An advantage of owning a magnetic chuck and a grinder to go with it.

  3. #3
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    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    Default

    I think Jones and Shipman made an attachment for one of their surface grinders (probably the 540) so that you can do limited cylindrical grinding...
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  4. #4
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    Default Churchill Surface Grinder Manchester England

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Nice example of improvisation Bruce. An advantage of owning a magnetic chuck and a grinder to go with it.
    I purchased this probably 70yr old machine from H & F about 16 yrs ago for $2000
    Thats when they were dealing a lot in second hand equipment & most of it was pretty nice stuff.
    This particular machine was the one,I definitely worked on in the apprentice times & has maintained its accuracy.It was probably used through WW2 (Just before my time)
    Its built like a Russian Tank & took a few of us to get it into the workshop.
    It has both thou & tenths of thou downfeed, powered reciprocating variable speed table, & auto cross feed which is also variable.Magnetic Table is 18" by 6" "Eclipse Brand"
    Ive found it to be a very useful machine, for very gentle & accurate metal removal.
    Just ran an indicator over the table both long & cross. A tenth thou indicator showed hardly any movement on the needle. I ground the magnetic table top about 10 yrs ago.
    The main bearings are some type of bronze slippers with an oil line from a small cast storage above the bearing head to provide positive gravity pressure on the bearings. There is a relief screw for relieving any air pressure build up in the bearing head, which is a simple adjustment from time to time. All seems to still operate perfectly as new.
    The poms & others of that era new how to build long lasting trouble free machines, that were fairly maintence free.
    I would very much like to get a catalogue or maintence parts manual on it, but so far all attempts have failed.
    Recently set up a coolant pump on it which has also improved its performance
    regards
    Bruce

  5. #5
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    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    Default

    [QUOTE=Abratool;1453399
    Just ran an indicator over the table both long & cross. A tenth thou indicator showed hardly any movement on the needle. I[/QUOTE]

    That is not an actual valid test for measuring a grinder as the table is ground in-situ...

    I think you have to get five small pieces of steel, put one in each corner and one in the middle and grind them, then measure the difference in size....

    Or something like that.... I have no surface grinder so am only going by what I have read...

    Kicking my self seriously I did not grab a 3ft churchill that was on ebay 15 months ago that was sort of local.... Well more local then Sydney or melbourne where most of that stuff is located...
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corndale
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    212

    Default

    Did you just rotate the indexer by hand for this job Bruce?
    What sort of bore is in the Hercus Indexer?
    It looks like it would be enough for a lot of little jobs on both the mill and lathe.
    Just remembered to have a look at the brochures and found it is #3 Morse taper with a 19mm bore.
    Last edited by localele; 3rd Mar 2012 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Brain clicked into gear.
    Micheal.

  7. #7
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    Dural NSW
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    Default Hercus Lathe Indexer

    Quote Originally Posted by localele View Post
    Did you just rotate the indexer by hand for this job Bruce?
    What sort of bore is in the Hercus Indexer?
    It looks like it would be enough for a lot of little jobs on both the mill and lathe.
    Just remembered to have a look at the brochures and found it is #3 Morse taper with a 19mm bore.
    Micheal
    Yes, I just rotate the Indexer by hand under the grinding wheel.
    This method is only suitable for small & short workpieces up to 1/2" dia that can be gripped by a collet.
    The Hercus indexer is a handy item. I got mine off EBay. However I noticed "Australian Metalworking Hobbyist" have them from time to time.
    Bruce

  8. #8
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    Jun 2008
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    Victoria, Australia
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    Default

    Hi Bruce,

    Pleased to hear you are getting some use out of that 1/10 indicator.

    Nice bit of improvised cylindrical grinding. (Nice grinder too). The next stage would be to motorize it.

    I don't know the correct way of checking a surface grinder, other than to grind something, and see if it's flat. The chuck on my surface grinder gets a lick every so often, I think it's twice now since we had it. The thickness of the ground item is going to follow the table, so you would need to grind a large item and then check for flatness against a reference surface... I think?

    Regards
    Ray

  9. #9
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    Default

    Micheal,

    It would not be too difficult to make one of your own. Here are a few photos of one dissected.

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/he...os-joe-143842/

    What would be handy is motorising the spindle. I had bought a sewing machine motor with plans of making a boy's version of a motorised work head for my tool and cutter grinder / boat anchor but the woes of the grinder blunted my enthusiasm.



    Then maybe the dividing head could be motorised.



    What do you think Bruce.

    BT

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Hi Bruce,

    Pleased to hear you are getting some use out of that 1/10 indicator.

    Nice bit of improvised cylindrical grinding. (Nice grinder too). The next stage would be to motorize it.

    Regards
    Ray
    While I was thinking you were typing.

    ps. How about some detail photos of the Cincinnati's work head Ray. Please.

  11. #11
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    Jun 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    While I was thinking you were typing.

    ps. How about some detail photos of the Cincinnati's work head Ray. Please.
    Hi BT,

    I'm out most of today, but later this afternoon, I'll get some pictures.

    Regards
    Ray

  12. #12
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    Default

    I was not expecting you to drop everything and dust off the Coolpix. Any time Ray.

    The Cincinatti's head will be a big, serious bit of gear. There maybe something about it that might lend itself to dilution for a boy's version. The trick I imagine, would be having a motor turn slowly enough to provide a useful spindle speed. Dumore recommend a lathe spindle speed of about 50 rpm when tool post grinding. I obviously know nothing of cylindrical grinding. That speed could be way off.

    BT

  13. #13
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    Default Thinking about Cylindrical Grinding

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Micheal,

    It would not be too difficult to make one of your own. Here are a few photos of one dissected.

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/he...os-joe-143842/

    What would be handy is motorising the spindle. I had bought a sewing machine motor with plans of making a boy's version of a motorised work head for my tool and cutter grinder / boat anchor but the woes of the grinder blunted my enthusiasm.



    Then maybe the dividing head could be motorised.



    What do you think Bruce.

    BT
    Bob
    Been thinking about the Cylindrical grinding, & just have a feeling you might be dissapointed with the end result.
    Cylindrical grinders are very solid heavy macines with accurate & robust grinding heads. Even with the very best machines, wheel balance & vibration & all of the other variables have to be kept to a minimum, to get optimum & accurate results.
    Tool & cutter grinders are designed for doing just that, using smaller dia cup wheels with lighter construction in the overall machine design.
    Tend to think it might be a case of "Trying to build the house around the latch"
    Realising it might be a tough decision but might be an opportunity to look for a nice used Cylindrical grinder. They seem to go for low prices these days.
    I would like one but really do not have enough use for one, but then again
    regards
    Bruce

  14. #14
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    Default No illusions.

    Hey Bruce.

    I was only thinking of an ersatz version for grinding centres etc. Boy's stuff. I have trouble enough achieving a good finish with the Dumore. Expecting to convert a worn T & C grinder into a precision cylindrical grinder is too far fetched even for me.

    BT

  15. #15
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    Default Small Cylindrical work

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Hey Bruce.

    I was only thinking of an ersatz version for grinding centres etc. Boy's stuff. I have trouble enough achieving a good finish with the Dumore. Expecting to convert a worn T & C grinder into a precision cylindrical grinder is too far fetched even for me.

    BT
    Should be OK for that type of stuff.
    The small Universal Tool & Cutter & Cylindrical grinders could do that type of work OK
    I was thinking of really accurate & fine finishing bigger shafts.For that work a dedicated machine is the go. They are built in a massive way to dampen out vibrations, & all of the other variables that go with that type of work.
    Since the last email, I can picture a machine sitting in the workshop
    A nice Jones & Shipman or similiar
    regards
    Bruce

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