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  1. #46
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    Jun 2008
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    Victoria, Australia
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    Thanks Neebs, seems a simple enough concept, the tricky part is of course finding one.. I reckon Dave could make something like that..

    That shaper vise deserves a bigger picture...



    Just the right size.

    Regards
    Ray

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South East Queensland, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neebs View Post
    Hi Guys,
    Thanks for your enthusiastic welcome and cheers to : "Bob" (Anorak), Bruce, "Log", Robbo 37, Dave "J" and Ray "G"...
    -------------------
    ...I see them as the "forgotten friend" of the Home Engineer...and when you consider the versatility and flexibility afforded by a "shaper" (about the only thing you can't do on a Shaper is: Drill Holes!)...allied with the fact that it is low-cost tooling...I just cannot fathom why the "penny hasn't dropped"...with more of the "men in sheds" brigade.

    Happy to upload other pics or close-ups of the Shapers if interested.
    Great stuff Neebs, thanks for the pics, and I'm sure I speak for the rest of the mob in being interested in pics of your other shapers,, we're a weird mob

    You said " (about the only thing you can't do on a Shaper is: Drill Holes!)...".
    Well low and behold now with the slotter attachment if ya bolt a drill on the face of the vertical slide and provide a handwheel off the bull wheel shaft,,, ta-dar,,, a drill press

    Cheers.

    If I'm not right, then I'm wrong, I'll just go bend some more bananas.

  3. #48
    Dave J Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Thanks Neebs, seems a simple enough concept, the tricky part is of course finding one.. I reckon Dave could make something like that..

    That shaper vise deserves a bigger picture...



    Just the right size.

    Regards
    Ray
    No problem Ray, I will knock up one next week for you, Oh wait, your the one that does cast iron casting so you should be right to make your own, and while your at it I will have one for the little Douglas while your there.

    It always had me stumped of how they connected, because I thought they still used the shaper rocker arm connected to a L shaped piece, but now I get it as they remove it to get the vertical motion. I would need a crane over mine to get the rocker arm out as it's heavy, then again you would need a crane to mount the slotter as well.

    Thanks for the pictures, and feel free to up load more.

    Dave

  4. #49
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lower Lakes SA
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    58
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    Like Dave, the penny has finally dropped for me. But I question the maker's claim that, "the change over is accomplished very quickly." I suppose it's all relative. But I would have though that, unless real estate and/or machines were real scarce, you might as well leave one set up as a slotter. At least, a man like Neebs would have that luxury.

  5. #50
    Dave J Guest

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    Hi Bran,
    They almost make it sound as simple as flipping a lever over, LOL But I would expect it to take at least 1 hour to change over and it would be a dirty job. But like you said you would just leave it set up on one machine. It would be a nice feature to have though, to save bending your neck around to see the job.

    Dave

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Fife Scotland
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    24

    Default As easy as flipping a lever...I think not!!!

    Hi Guys,
    Well, I'm glad you managed to "see" thro' the fog of my words...and that the penny has dropped...into how the Vertical Slotting Attachment was driven by the Bull Gear driving pin.
    ...and of course...the icing on the cake was that you were still able to adjust the stroke...by adjusting the stroke changer...The only difference being that the "ratio" was altered.
    Full end to end adjustment on the stroke changer, now went from 0.25 inch to 9.5 inch when using the Slotter...as opposed to a full 14 inch of stroke when using the Horizontal Shaper Ram with Rocking Lever.

    Brilliantly simple concept...however...as a few guys have realised...you have some seriously heavy lumps of metal to lift off...and on...
    ...and as Bryan has "sussed"...as I have "two" 14 inch Elliotts (luxury!)...I can leave one machine permanently set up as a "beast" of a Vertical Slotter.

    ...and I will let you into a little secret...

    ...Pssst...That's why I have the two 14M's...As this was always my dastardly plan...
    ...however, for a long time there...I was beginning to give up hope of ever finding a Vertical Slotting Attachment as they are so hard to find!

    Make no mistake...Set up as the Slotter, this isn't a "toy"...you are still taking about having a serious bit o' kit at your disposal (3hp with a stroke of 9 inches)...within the same "floor area" as the Shaper.
    I will however, still have to make/fabricate the "Y" axis table for use with the Slotter...as they are even rarer than the Slotter.

    But...just think about the machine set-up as a Slotter with the "Y" axis table...with my ten inch rotary table mounted on top...lovely!!!

    Don't cha' just love it when a plan comes together...even tho' it has taken me three years to achieve it!

    Best Regards,
    Neebs

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Hi Neebs,
    Welcome.
    +1 for more pictures of the rest of your collection
    As you may have seen I have a 4M.
    What are all the electrical boxes on the side of your 14M for? My 4M had a contactor inside the base and that was it.
    What are the "angle iron" looking pieces either side of the stroke position adjuster?

    Thats got to be a J&S surface grinder I can see in the background. It sure looks like one but I thought the manual feed was on the right..but that would put it above the downfeed... my memory must be going, I'd forgotten about the fine feed on the Y until I saw it in your picture.

    Stuart

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Fife Scotland
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    Default Stustoys questions

    Hi Stuart,
    Thanks for the welcome...and nice to "speak" to a fellow Elliot/Invicta owner...

    Your first question was to query what all the electrical boxes were on the side of my older 14M...
    Answer: looking from right to left: Fused/Switched Isolator, then a switched Transformer for a MEMLow light, and finally a BKS (British Klockner Switchgear) Oil filled Motor Contactor...or as my mate says...more switchgear, on one machine, than found in your average local Nuclear Power Plant

    Your next question was regarding the "angle iron"pieces either side of the Ram position locking Nut/bolt...
    Answer:...and we are now talking about the other (later) 14M...this time the Elliott 14M with the swivel Box Table, assembled by GATE Machinery after they tookover the assets of Elliott.
    These "angle iron" pieces were an attempt to stop "people" from trying to put their hand down through the slot in the Ram...(though who, in their right mind, would ever even consider trying to shove their hand down into the Ram slot is beyond me!!!)

    ....which was all part of the "elfin safety"...clampdown in the late 70's early 80's...
    ...this later machine also has micro-switches, to kill the power, on the side access door...(which you open to lubricate the Rocker Arm/Sliding Die Block, Bull Gear etc.)...and a "kick switch" (since removed) which was positioned just up above floor level...as an additional "E" Stop.
    In my opinion...They went just a little bit OTT...on the safety side with Shapers!
    or,
    maybe it was just that the Factory Inspector(s) were absolutely terrified of Shapers


    Last point...well spotted...yes Stuart, it's a Jones & Shipman 540 Surface Grinder, in the background.

    Makes me think...
    I should maybe post some pictures of my "shed"...in the thread "show us yer metal-working sheds"...so you can see what else is "hiding" in there!

    Regards,
    Neebs
    Last edited by Neebs; 5th Mar 2012 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Spelling error

  9. #54
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Canberra
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    Hi,
    Its no wonder the rest of us "shaperless" folks can't get one, all you shaper owners are hoarders and have already collected the worlds population of shapers.

    Nice set of machines Neebs, more pics in the show us your shed thread would be great...hmmm i should get around to that as well.
    Ewan

  10. #55
    Dave J Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Hi,
    Its no wonder the rest of us "shaperless" folks can't get one, all you shaper owners are hoarders and have already collected the worlds population of shapers.

    Nice set of machines Neebs, more pics in the show us your shed thread would be great...hmmm i should get around to that as well.
    Ewan

    Thats because they are addictive, once you get one you will want another one and so on. They are slow, but fantastic machines to use and watch. You can put a lump of rusty steel on the table, and with a cheap HSS bit you can have it looking like new again. Much cheaper than using the mill and you can also prep the steel to go on the mill which will save money.

    I guess you will be looking for a shaper now, there are still plenty hiding in old workshops and factories.

    Dave

  11. #56
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    Jul 2010
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    Melbourne
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    Hi Neebs,
    Thanks for that. I must say if I was trying to guard a shaper, that slot isnt the place I'd start. I cant see it being a problem unless you hand your hand in there while the machine was moving and the adjuster was loose.. go figure.

    I want a J&S!!!!.. maybe one day. (not that I have a use for one or anywhere to put it, but thats beside the point lol)

    Stuart

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Fife Scotland
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    Default Shapers are addictive

    Hi,
    Yes...Dave J...is bang on!

    Shaper addiction...is "hell"...as it is for life!!!

    It's not like fags or booze...where you can either get help...or go "cold turkey" to rid yourself of the addiction...or should that read...affliction!
    (Here...I've just been thinking...I wonder if you can get Shaper "patches" to stick on your arm...to help you quit!...similar to the ones you get when you are trying to wean yourself off the fags)

    Only thing is...I think they would be bloody heavy...your likely to keep falling over to the side!!!

    Once your "hooked" on Shapers...there is no going back...

    ...and very rapidly, one Shaper...becomes two...becomes three...etc.etc.etc.

    You are always looking for your next Shaper "fix"!

    ...and you very rapidly find that the "smaller" ones...don't give you a big enough "kick"...so the search is on...I NEED a BIGGER one!!!

    The rest then just becomes "history"...

    Regards,
    Neebs

    My name is Adrian...and I am a Shaperholic!

  13. #58
    Dave J Guest

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    Hi Stuart, good to see you posting again.

    Sometimes OHAS go over board, and in this case they did. Who would place there hand in their, LOL

    It reminds me of the one on UK ebay a while back.




    I wonder if it ever sold for the $10,000 pound or so.

    Dave

  14. #59
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    Oct 2010
    Location
    Fife Scotland
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    Default Expensive Shaper on ebay

    HI guys,

    No...it has never sold, to my knowledge...and at that price...are you surprised?

    It's an Ajax by the way.

    The guy who owns it (a dealer, I think) just sticks it back on ebay every now and again...

    It's not a bad machine just the same!

    Regards,
    Neebs

    PS Stuart...J & S 540's used to be very expensive...even the old ones...
    However, with the ongoing closure of small engineering 'shops they are becoming more "affordable"...so I wish you well in your endeavours to find one.

  15. #60
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    Jun 2008
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    Hi Neebs,

    We have recognized the problem and formed a "shaper support group" , the founder member is Phil (aka Steamwhisperer) who realised the addiction when he found himself going out to the workshop, turning the shaper on for a few minutes and giggling to himself...

    The meetings consist of all of us sitting around a shaper, with blank mesmerized stares..

    I think you have demonstrated the necessary addiction to be qualified for a membership, so welcome to the "Shaper Addicts Support Group"

    Regards
    Ray
    I wish I could type with a scottish accent and say "Welcome Laddie"..

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