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Thread: Metal files 101

  1. #1
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    Default Metal files 101

    Hi all,
    This is a question I would not normally think to ask, but it seems I have access here to some people that have some great knowledge I can tap into. So, maybe I should avail myself of this opportunity.

    Some very basic questions buying, using and caring for metal files.

    I've never had the opportunity to be taught anything at all about buying or using files. I've had a wide variety of brands over the years. Some not bad, others....why did I bother? But, its quite possible I've just bought the wrong file for the wrong job. One purchase was a set of Bahco ones. Bahco has always impressed me as a brand in the past, but these ones were ok I guess, but nothing to write home to mother about.

    Recently I had a need for a decent file quickly for a job I was doing and the nearest place within walking distance of the job was Bolts and Fasteners here in Bendigo.
    I picked up one called PFERD. It has numerous markings on it that mean nothing to me.
    On the handle is FH 4/1
    On the packaging is 250mm (I think I can figure that one out) and SB1122 and just the number 2

    Hey wow! One of the best files I've ever owned. I use them primarily just to clean up the dags caused by my chop saw. A fairly simple task.

    But, I'm thinking I'm at a point where I can justify spending some money and get a decent set of files for once in my life, and throw out everything else.

    So, can somebody please educate me what types of files would a good general set to have on hand? I'm thinking one like I have now plus a large and a smaller round and a triangular one.

    Is this PFERD and well known quality brand? If so, I'll just go back and get more.
    Is there an even better brand I should look for?

    Then, how to I care for files? Can they be cleaned? Somewhere I read they should be treated like chisels. Not just thrown in a drawer. So I've kept the packaging from the PFERD and put it back into its sleeve after using.
    Is this right? Important?

    So, please look upon me as a first year apprentice on his first day at trade school and teach me about files. Please?
    Cheers
    Jim

  2. #2
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    Default files

    I too am interested in your request as I would like a set also
    Don't force it, use a bigger hammer.

    Timber is what you use. Wood is what you burn.

  3. #3
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    Pferd is Swiss? I have a couple of other tools from them and am very happy with them.

    I just got a set of Grobet files from the US for $31, but they are all under 8". Swiss again, high quality. That was an ebay deal.

    Nicholson is the best known brand in North America, and probably here too. Their production has all gone to China now--recent reports are so-so.

    I'd still snatch up some old stock Nicholsons if I had a chance. My files live nested in a piece of wood kerfed to fit them. If they touch both files get dinged. The conventional wisdom re cleaning was to use a file card, but I'm told that dulls them. I have used a small pick to remove aluminium dags from the teeth. A really clogged file can be cleaned with drain cleaner which eats the alloy but not the file.
    It's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™

  4. #4
    Dave J Guest

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    I would head back to the same shop and buy the others you are after.
    As for storing them your right, don't let them touch together in the draw. As for what to put on the, some guys use chalk and others use oil.
    I have bought the cheap sets from Aldi and use them for general use, then when they wear out I have a good comfortable handle for my money and will put it on a quality one. I will say they seem to last a long time and are worth the $18 set.
    To sharpen an old file you can put it in white vinegar overnight and it will do it's job, I have not done this myself yet but looked into it for some old files I have hear and thats the recommendation.
    I wouldn't throw out you old files as sometimes you want a worn file so it doesn't take much off.

    I have a good old tafe book hear with all the info you would want on files, I can scan the pages and send them to you if you would like.Just send me you email via PM.

    Dave

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Q View Post
    Pferd is Swiss?
    Had a look at the packaging. Doesn't say a country of origin. Sounds Swiss, doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Q View Post
    Nicholson is the best known brand in North America, and probably here too. Their production has all gone to China now--recent reports are so-so.
    Does it irriate anybody else that we can no longer buy by brand and know its good?
    Used to be we could buy Makita and know it would last. Now, there are still good Makitas but there is also some rubbish.

  6. #6
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    Dave...I wouldn't let them sit overnight. I have used citric acid in a bucket of water...let em sit for about 20 minutes, neutralised in baking soda/water, blasted dry and oiled. Its a great way to get another go out of old files...I've got some that I did four years ago that are still good.

    I got the citric acid powder from the baking section at the supermarket.

    Greg
    It's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandad-5 View Post
    Had a look at the packaging. Doesn't say a country of origin. Sounds Swiss, doesn't it?

    .
    In fact a Google search shows their operation in Germany. Impressive.

    I have a book here too from the department of skills and shortages on files. I am going to send it to RC to scan and add to the PDF collection.
    It's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™

  8. #8
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    Most of the needle files I've seen for sale are rubbish. I buy Vellorbe brand Swiss files, very expensive but worth it and I think that's been the case for many years. WD40 works well when filing aluminium, clog fee and excellent cut. Tends to work on copper and brass but not as well. Hydrochloric Acid can be used to re-keen a blunt file as it thins the cutting edges. I've tried it wilth mild success.
    Metal Workers Handy Book by Paul N. Hasluck recommends sand blasting the files at an angle behind the cutting edges to resharpen them. You want to try and get the abrasive to skip parallel to the back of the cutting edges. Anyway I've never seen a file coming out of China or India that was any good or stayed sharp beyond a few strokes.

    As a side note. I've had a chance to evaluate a set of Frost Brand UNF/UNC taps and dies. The taps still had burrs between the threads and looked to be milled rather than ground. I don't believe they were ground sharp at all. Needless to say they did not cut. Frost Drill bits are made from a low grade HSS or possibly carbon steel. Either Suttons or P&N bought Frost, they are all the same company now. Frost is the low end product which is probably made in China. They used to make decent drills and tools but no more.

  9. #9
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    try vallorbe, swiss made file and excellent quallity

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    Ok, I've just gone out to my shop and had a look through my files drawer.
    Several were made in Taiwan....they're in the bin.
    I hung onto the Bahcos, I find I do reach for them fairly regularly.
    I found an old one that I recall was another good one that had long ago gone blunt/worn. What do you know? It's also a Pferd. Never noticed that before.
    The last one is a Nicholson, made in Brazil. Brazil???
    Taiwan/China/Korea.....those I understand. Generally rubbish. But Brazil? Where does that figure into things I wonder.
    I'll hang onto it as well. It is a Nicholson after all.

    I think what I'll do is take the advice of Dave J, simply because I know I can get those here AND it seems I've had good experiences with that brand on at least two separate occassions, but I've made a note of Vallorbe & Grobet to see if the local suppliers here stock them.

    My old files I've kept will be good to try the vinegar/citric acid thing on.

    I've got two places here in Bendigo I think would be good starting points.
    I'll try those and report back.

    Sortof on the same subject, a tip that maybe I can offer someone is Farriers rasps.
    If any of you do any carpentry work, try to grab an old one off a farrier when its too blunt for him to use. At that point they become ideal for woodworkers. An architect I did some work for years ago put me onto that and I've been amazed ever since just how often its the perfect tool. Like I said, a USED one is better and its for carpentry work, not cabinet/furniture making.

    Thanks guys.

  11. #11
    Dave J Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandad-5 View Post
    Sortof on the same subject, a tip that maybe I can offer someone is Farriers rasps.
    If any of you do any carpentry work, try to grab an old one off a farrier when its too blunt for him to use. At that point they become ideal for woodworkers. An architect I did some work for years ago put me onto that and I've been amazed ever since just how often its the perfect tool. Like I said, a USED one is better and its for carpentry work, not cabinet/furniture making.

    Thanks guys.
    I have got a few of them here and use them for timber as well. We have horses but I don't shoe them, though watching the farrier I don't think it would be hard unless you sprog the nail the wrong way. LOL
    He has said a few times I should have a go, but it's something left to the professionals I think. Anyway my wife would kill me if I made one of them have a limp.
    Thinking about I could mill up some super thick shoes and harden them so they never wear out.

    Dave

  12. #12
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    Hi Grandad-5

    Just a few thoughts.

    If you come across any Wiltshire, (good Australian Brand) they are worth keeping, Old Nicholson's are good. the new Nicholson's, are rubbish, made in Mexico, Brazil etc.

    Best of all is Vallorbe or Grobet, but quality comes at a cost.

    Never chuck out old files, even the crap ones, they are always handy for making things. It's a good source of high carbon steel.

    You can sharpen files in citric acid, they come up sharper than new.

    For woodworking the best rasps will cost... Auriou are up there, but there are others, there was a thread on comparing rasps in the hand tools section recently. If you've never used a good quality rasp, it's a real eye-opener..

    Regards
    Ray

    PS Never let your good files rattle around in a drawer bumping into each other... store them properly.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    .........but it's something left to the professionals I think.
    Oh yeah...Spot on there Dave.
    Or, you could always get Appaloosas, they're happy with no shoes.

  14. #14
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    Hi Grandad,

    Here's that thread on Rasps http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/r...d-test-141118/

    Regards
    Ray

  15. #15
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    While Pferd are a German company they have a few factories around the world. I believe Brazil and India are two of them. My Pferd files don't have a "made in... " stamped on them, so you can be pretty sure it's not Germany.

    I have a heap of Wiltshire files that were made in Melbourne. Still new in the original boxes. They are good files.

    Chris
    Chris

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