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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth
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    3

    Default Turbo Manifold Build

    Hey Everyone

    Nice to meet you all, been lurking around here for some time and thought I would sign up and get involved

    I'm currently stuck in my turbo build , My problem begins with the turbo manifold flange.

    I have started the Flange with 316 ss, 10mm thick and cut the outer shape relatively good using simple home tools angle grinder , rotary tool ( Dremel ) , etc and have drilled all the needed holes for the flange to line up and bolt to the head. Now all I have to do is cut out or mill the ports into the flange , I have started by taking the gasket of the manifold and outlines the port's position then I proceed to drill a hole in the middle of the port. After that I put the flange onto my router table and start expanding the hole wider and wider , It works well for the first couple of minutes then the carbide bit just dulls and it cuts painfully slow.

    Has anyone got a solution to my little problem ? I was thinking maybe a hacksaw with a rounded blade or buying a milling carbide bit and putting it into my router and having a go. I know its probably easier to get this laser cut/ water jetted out but this is a DIY home build and I would like to do everything myself no matter what.

    Right now I only have a Pic of the design of my flange but i will uploaded some pictures of what it looks like later.
    Attachment 178929

    Is there any other forums that would specialise in manifold making?
    All help is much appreciated !
    ,Regards

  2. #2
    Metmachmad is offline Turning useful pieces of steel into scrap metal.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Riverina, NSW, Australia
    Age
    68
    Posts
    138

    Default

    Welcome to the forum Spencer,
    I'm certainly no expert when it comes to carbide cutters, but you probablely have the wrong grade of carbide and maybe running the one you using too fast, hence the premature dulling of the tool.
    As for finishing the job using hand tools without "proper" workshop tools and machines, it will be a labourious task utilising basis hand tools, but if you perservere, I guess you will eventually get there.
    Turning useful pieces of steel into scrap metal.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,375

    Default

    Are you using a wood working router to try and cut 10mm steel, and stainless steel at that?

    What type of cutter are you using and what revs is your router running at?

    Stainless is hard to machine at the best of times, I suspect you are going to be frustrated trying to machine it using wood working tools.

    More info would help.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    56

    Default

    The way to do this with limited tools is chain drilling.
    You mark the outline you want to remove.
    Then using a small drill bit say 3mm drill a serial of holes all around the outline.
    Don't try to make each hole touch but make them close.
    Then use a coping saw with a metal cutting blade to cut through each hole to join them all together.
    Then when the centre piece is removed die gring to shape.
    This is the first photo that I found with a quick google.

    Chain Drilling Backhead | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Don't try using the router on steel.
    Without being able to clamp the work down tightly the bit will break and the work will try and hurt you.
    Hope this helps.
    David

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    33

    Default

    I know you want to make this at home no matter what, but that is so much extra work for no gain (except a few dollars and maybe bragging rights?)

    You have gone to the trouble of drawing it up on autocad and have all the perfect dimensions on there and then you want to go ahead and cut this out by hand?

    Probably better to have started with 12mm thick plate and then have it machined (or in your case hand sanded?) down flat just in case it warps a little during welding.

    Just my opinion, email the drawing to a laser cutter and have it done in minutes and with near perfect accuracy as well.
    www.methodmetal.com.au

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Hey guys

    yes its a wood router spins between 8000-32000 Rpm.
    Router bit is a tungsten carbide tipped.
    I thought of Chain drilling but drilling 316 is hard at the best of times.

    Would anyone have a ruff estimate of cutting out something like this with laser or water jet?

    Pics as promised.
    Attachment 178953
    Attachment 178954
    Attachment 178955

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Spencer, please don't continue doing what you're doing. At best you're going to continue to ruin perfectly good tools, at worst you will seriously injure yourself. Don't believe the latter? I was taking to an engineer from your home city a while back and the subject of his missing finger came up. It was done by a router grabbing ... "last cut of the day", he said.

    It seems you have 3 choices. Change the material to aluminium, which can be machined with woodworking tools and appropriate lubrication, albeit carefully. I bent an expensive saw blade rated to cut aluminium, so it's still not something to be taken lightly.

    Alternatively have it machined by somebody else, there is no shame in doing so.

    The final alternative? Buy a mill and then you can do the whole lot yourself. But please don't continue to try to "machine" this with a router. I'm certainly not one of those people who see humour in other people being injured; "Funniest Home Videos is not on my watch list! There is a reason that nowhere on your packet of 1/4" shank router bits does it mention "stainless steel" as being a suitable material!

    Pete

  8. #8
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by racer123 View Post
    The way to do this with limited tools is chain drilling.
    You mark the outline you want to remove.
    Then using a small drill bit say 3mm drill a serial of holes all around the outline.
    David
    +1
    I was going to suggest as above as well. You could also put it on something solid like a steel plate of a vice a use a small cold chisel to break between the holes. After it's out it's just a matter of getting a good cutting file and finish it up.
    This way will work much quicker and the only tool you may go through is a drill bit.

    I have done this years ago myself, it's the hard way of doing it compared to milling but gets the job done accurate.

    Dave

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    269

    Default Stainless Steel

    Bloke

    Your speed is way to high cutting stainless steel. I needed to make a part for a bloke out of stainless solid rod. Spoke to the man down at Fiora Machinery, asked what speed should I set my lathe and mill on. Slow came the reply, with lots of cooling. I used TCT tipped tools to turn down the inside dia, then used high speed steel to cut the slots needed. All set on around the 300rpm range.

    If you are dulling your TCT tool, its because you are going to fast. Routers are good on wood, leave them there.

    DD

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer* View Post
    Would anyone have a ruff estimate of cutting out something like this with laser or water jet?
    Everyone charges differently, some dont like to do small orders and charge according.

    I dont know the going rate of stainless but if done in 10mm mild steel I recon my local waterjet cutter would charge ~$100-150 for a one off of your main piece there, in addition to laser and water there is cnc plasma cutters which should be even cheaper.


    As an example, I got these cut late last year for $77 each (purchased 2 of in 10mm mild)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Hi Spencer,

    As everyone else has said, don't use the router. Use the chain drilling method Dave and racer123 have suggested. As you said 316 is hard stuff to drill, the most common mistake is running the drill too fast and too little coolant.

    What happens with stainless is that it work hardens while you are cutting it, if you take too light cuts the stuff hardens making the cut harder. Slow speed lots of pressure.

    What tools do you have, I see you've got a dremel, do you have a die grinder?
    What about a drill press?

    On the assumption you have a drill press, go and buy a few cobalt drill bits and get a squeeze bottle set up with coolant. Set the drill press on a slow speed, and keep plenty of coolant pooling around the hole while you are drilling.

    Regards
    Ray

  12. #12
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    Good advice Ray,
    The work hardening that Ray mentioned can kill tools quicker than looking at them and is probably what killed your router bit.
    SS is not the easiest material to work with and takes a bit of getting used to. If you follow the above advice you shouldn't have too many troubles doing it though.
    Even water can be used if you don't have coolant on hand, just remember to clean it up after woods or it will rust you drill table. A wipe down with any type of oil before you start will help preserve it.

    Dave

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Aluminium is out of the question because I only have a DC tig.
    I could give this chain drilling technique a go but it seems very laborious and I have already dulled 2 drill bits on this project both costing around $40 each and I was using WD40 as lubrication and it still happened I do know that stainless hardness as it
    get hotter.

    I have quite the typical garage , drill press, router , dremel ,Angle grinder ( has a stand to be used a drop saw ) all the typical sidchrome tools.

    My next approach was similar to chain drilling but it involves a hacksaw. Drilling a hole in each corner of the port and joining them together by threading the hacksaw blade through the hole and then linking all the holes together. I dont know if a hacksaw would hold up tho? Its slow and it wont generate that much heat( because i'll be stop for breaks )

    The blade style I'm thinking of
    Attachment 179003

    I will get into contact with some laser cutters on Monday morning and let you fella's know .

    All this help is much appreciated!
    CHEERS!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Katherine ,Northern Territory
    Age
    69
    Posts
    736

    Default

    Drill two holes or more and use a normal hacksaw blade ,the more holes you can drill the less cutting there is to do .

    Kev
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Murwillumbah
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer* View Post
    Aluminium is out of the question because I only have a DC tig.
    I could give this chain drilling technique a go but it seems very laborious and I have already dulled 2 drill bits on this project both costing around $40 each and I was using WD40 as lubrication and it still happened I do know that stainless hardness as it
    get hotter.

    I have quite the typical garage , drill press, router , dremel ,Angle grinder ( has a stand to be used a drop saw ) all the typical sidchrome tools.

    My next approach was similar to chain drilling but it involves a hacksaw. Drilling a hole in each corner of the port and joining them together by threading the hacksaw blade through the hole and then linking all the holes together. I dont know if a hacksaw would hold up tho? Its slow and it wont generate that much heat( because i'll be stop for breaks )

    The blade style I'm thinking of
    Attachment 179003

    I will get into contact with some laser cutters on Monday morning and let you fella's know .

    All this help is much appreciated!
    CHEERS!


    Spencer,
    You've got the right idea....contact laser, waterjet or hi-definition plasma guys to do the job.
    If you already have a design, whether it be hand drawn on paper or DXF, they will have the job done in short time.
    I've done several manifold designs over the years (CNC Plasma) but, mainly from mild steel.

    Mick.

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