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  1. #31
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    Gregory,

    I'm glad you jumped at the collets. The fact that I have a fair range (17), some of which are UP's, meant that I was not led to temptation. What I do like is having a chuck of equal quality.

    BT

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    I was talking to Alan the other day and he reckons he will go down the path of lowering his table via an adapter plate. Great if you are armed with a Colchester and a surface grinder. Bit hard with a Hercus and a hand file!

    BT
    I was trolling all 84 pages in the PM Euro machines forum yesterday hunting for more clues. I read the original article about that plate in which Ross (AlfaGT) mentioned that aluminium tooling plate would be better suited for that adapter since it does not warp like steel will. God knows what stupid fee local suppliers want for that stuff.

  3. #33
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    How far back was Ross's post?

  4. #34
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    I don't know, but I'll have a look-see

  5. #35
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    It was in this thread:FP1 Table Dropper - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

    Some thoughts about the table lowering plate:
    First off remember that steel makes a very poor fixture in cases like this. It can be made to work but there are problems. Steel will almost always change shape when it is machines on both sides and theis includes grinding....it is almost impossible to get a truly flat plate without some extra measures to assure it has not taken a bow or warp. Most times the plate is put up on a surface grinder (Blanchard) and surfaced using a magnetic chuck. The chuck will hold the plate flat and when reliesed the plate will resume the bent or warped condition. Shimming to prevent "pull down" helps but the problem gets worse when the part is reversed to the opposite side.

    A solution would be to hand scrape the plate to correct any out of flat and parallel conditions. Using a cast iron plate would lessen the trouble , but would still require some scraping to finish i think.

    Another way around this issue would be to go in another direction. It is easy to purchase (and relatively cheap) a piece of "Tooling Plate". This is a cast aluminum material that has almost zero internal stress and has been mill ground on both sides to be flat and parallel.
    I would spec. a slightly thicker section than shown in the above photos to help with stiffness, but all that would be required would be drilling and tapping your holes for mounting. Manny suppliers will (at small extra cost) precision cut the plate to size using cold saws that produce a clean ane straight edge. If the material is being shipped be sure they will cover the faces to prevent any damage.

    This thread started because of a posting regarding the need for more "head room" on an FP1 for drilling that got locked. I did not have a chance to respond to that posting so i will do it here.

    It was suggested to purchase a set of "Screw machine" length drills that were shorter and this would help in getting the job done. Good advice.
    Her are a few more tips..You can easily "neck" down the shanks of any drills to allow them to fit into the next smaller fractional collet to elinminate the need for the chuck at all. Makes a very short setup. The shanks of twist drills are soft and easily turned in the lathe using carbide tooling. If you had a short ER style collet setup for your machine you could grip any drill without turning the shank.
    Finally, you might use another style chuck for drilling. On my manual Deckels i preffer the Jackobs 14N ball bearing "Super Chuck" with a straight 3/4" shank fitted to the "3JT" of the chuck. The straight shank allows use in a normal 3/4" Deckel collet and makes removing the chuck easy and quick. Think you will find this combination is shorter than the Albrecht setup. As a side note if you have a machine that can reverse spindle rotation, the Jackobs setup is nice for power tapping as well, allowing you to back the tap out without the chuck comming loose.

    Cheers Ross

  6. #36
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    Greg,

    Thank you for finding and posting that. Ross knows his stuff. I have a rough sawn slice of 4E cast bar in the shed. It's 320mm diameter by about 23mm thick. Most probably be ideal for the dropper. Unfortunately, I have no way of machining it. I had bought it to cut up and make a table for one of my grinders. Another of those "one day" projects.

    Bob.

  7. #37
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    Bob, I am going to the Australian Manufacturer's Expo in MEL next month. I'll try to find you a show special on a piece of tooling plate if you want.

    Also...I was just looking at my Deckel disc. I may have made an incomplete copy of same and can no longer find my original. Does yours have Deckel service manuals or instructions on it? Also: Have you got a legible diagram of the Schaublin's x-axis feed selection mechanism?

    We started gutting the Deckel tonight and have a good idea of at least three of the parts we have to make. We had a laugh at Deckel's ability to use three parts where one would do. (Although using three parts in an assembly did make it slightly better...which is why I wanted the thing in the first place )

    Greg

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Greg,

    Thank you for finding and posting that. Ross knows his stuff. I have a rough sawn slice of 4E cast bar in the shed. It's 320mm diameter by about 23mm thick. Most probably be ideal for the dropper. Unfortunately, I have no way of machining it. I had bought it to cut up and make a table for one of my grinders. Another of those "one day" projects.

    Bob.
    I'm going to go casting about for chunks of tooling plate-I'll let you know what I dig up. Of all the PM posters Ross gets my vote for cogent posts and confident, correct advice. (Except maybe about the Jacobs 14N which are cr@p on a cr@p cracker compared to an Albrecht.

  9. #39
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    Greg,

    I will take some Schaublin drawings to work and scan them. The Swiss located the feed gear box at the rear of the machine. Some say it's awkward to access, I say I'm happy to have it.

    I will rumage through the disc and pressure one of my co-workers to copy the relevant material. I have your address.

    I will present my case in support of 14n's this evening.

    Bob.

  10. #40
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    Perhaps I should retract my statement until I get a chance to pull my 14N apart. To be fair, it was an ebay, and hence of unknown internal condition.

    I bought it after hearing so many good things about the super chucks and was disappointed. I use a Rohm chuck for most things now.

  11. #41
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    No.13 drawings scanned and emailed.

  12. #42
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    Default Ball Bearing Super Chucks by Jacobs

    I can't make a comparison between a 1/2" Albrecht and a 14N because I dont own the former. I do have a 1/2" Rohm Supra keyless chuck that I purchased new. I find that I have more confidence in the 14N's holding ability than I do of the Rohm. Might be just a mental thing, being able to tighten the chuck with a key compared to tightening by hand only.

    The 14's ( I have 2 ) were purchased used on Ebay. I also purchased rebuild kits on Ebay. The full kit includes jaws, balls and races. On one, I also replaced the sleeve. One of the chucks is mounted in my drill press, the other I use in the tailstock of the lathe. I also have a rebuilt 8 1/2 bearing chuck in which I have mounted a small centre drill, for lathe use also.

    I think the Jacobs chucks have an edge over the Rohm for accuracy. But It doesn't really matter because if accuracy is required, the hole needs boring. I picked up a 1/8" Albrecht for the high speed head. I really need to get hold of the finger feed shank for that little tot.

    BT

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    I can't make a comparison between a 1/2" Albrecht and a 14N because I dont own the former. I do have a 1/2" Rohm Supra keyless chuck that I purchased new. I find that I have more confidence in the 14N's holding ability than I do of the Rohm. Might be just a mental thing, being able to tighten the chuck with a key compared to tightening by hand only.

    The 14's ( I have 2 ) were purchased used on Ebay. I also purchased rebuild kits on Ebay. The full kit includes jaws, balls and races. On one, I also replaced the sleeve. One of the chucks is mounted in my drill press, the other I use in the tailstock of the lathe. I also have a rebuilt 8 1/2 bearing chuck in which I have mounted a small centre drill, for lathe use also.

    I think the Jacobs chucks have an edge over the Rohm for accuracy. But It doesn't really matter because if accuracy is required, the hole needs boring. I picked up a 1/8" Albrecht for the high speed head. I really need to get hold of the finger feed shank for that little tot.

    BT
    1. Well, let me send you one for comparison purposes, and a report. You'll have to supply your own arbor though.

    2.I'll need to BOLO for a Jacobs rebuild kit

    3. The Rohm I have is a keyed chuck. It was listed as a "Rohiti" as the seller misinterpreted the logo. $20.

    4. If you find the little finger feed shank please get two.

  14. #44
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  15. #45
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    I just slipped up to the shed armed with a ruler. The 14N is 97mm long with the jaws closed. The Rohm, 102mm. The 5/8 capacity No.34 Jacobs is the same length as the 14. This chuck came with the mill and was fitted with a 1/2" straight arbor. This would have allowed it to fit into a P collet. The P's sit flush with the spindle end. Mounting these ckucks onto an flanged arbor ( in my case ) would chew up even more room.

    Now my SK30 ER25 chuck is 52 mm long from the taper side of the flange to the nose ie. 52mm projection from the spindle end. The ER32 chuck is 58mm long.

    Why bother with a drill chuck except for the convenience of not changing collets?

    BT

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