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7th Jun 2011, 01:27 PM #106Dave J Guest
Bob,
A good craftsman never blames his tools, LOL
Dave
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8th Jun 2011, 09:34 AM #107.
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Thank you Eskimo and Alan. The reality is that I could not have untertaken this project without the Schaublin mill. The universal table has enabled operations that otherwise would have required a much larger machine. Having 2 horsepower is certainly another advantage. And what can I say about power feed.
I had been searching for a project that would justify my ownership of such a wonderful machine. I could have gone on making stops and adjusters etc. but I wanted to make something that utilized the mill's features. The stops could have been made on the Hercus. I considered a clock ( I haven't abandoned the idea) but wanted something that wasn't so daunting. Discussions about planes over in the Woodie forum planted the seed for my attempt at whittling my all time favourite plane from a piece of bar. I've been lucky so far that my close calls have only been close.
I'm glad this little project has provided some interest and entertainment.
BT
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8th Jun 2011, 09:46 AM #108Most Valued Member
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12th Sep 2011, 12:51 PM #109.
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Back at it.
Having run out of excuses not to do so, I thought I better have a go at working on the mouth of the plane. The curved sides limit access with an end mill resulting in an awkward to remove projection of cast iron at the ends of the mouth. The combination of a Dremel with at first a very small stone, then an even smaller burr, followed by an assortment of riffler files did the trick. To file the front of the mouth, I used a small flat file while holding a strip of brass shim in place to prevent the upper teeth cutting the opposite side of the mouth. There is still a bit of needle file work required but the hard bit is out of the way.
The most useful tool I used during the filing was a PanaVise. I'd picked it up cheaply on Ebay years ago and never found a use for it until now. I do need to improve on the manner in which I had the thing mounted. Having the base clamped between the rubber faced jaws of an 8 inch bench vise is not the optimum setup. I will lash out and screw it to a block of wood.
I did use my Sandvik scraper to remove some milling marks from the outside of the handle recess. Cut the cast iron like butter but not really the correct shape for the task.
Next step is thinning out the sides. Should be fun. Then there's the blade.
BT
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12th Sep 2011, 08:16 PM #110
Hi Bob,
I enjoy seeing that plane more and more every time you do a little bit more, looks magnificient.
Filing is something, that I find very relaxing, you get into a sort of rhythm. I probably would have ground a safe edge on that flat file, but I guess a bit of brass sheet covering the teeth does the same thing.
Bedding the blade to that nice clean cast iron surface should give a nice chatter free setup. I would leave that until you get the blade sorted, as the mouth opening will need to be tuned to the final thickness of the blade.
Looks great.!
Regards
Ray
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12th Sep 2011, 11:49 PM #111.
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Thank you Ray.
The blade should be the next thing. It and the design of the cap iron influence the adjuster and its positioning. When will you be up for heat treatment orders?
That little Yankee Nicholson file is my current favourite. Would have been a shame to do away with one side. The brass did the trick.
BT
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14th Sep 2011, 09:29 AM #112Most Valued Member
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Bob, what steel are you using for the blade and where did you get it from?
Pete
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14th Sep 2011, 11:23 AM #113
Bob,
great to see this back up and running.
A local enthusiast has been making a little dovetailed chariot plane, and has been back an forth a few times over the last couple of months asking how things are done....and after starting a week ago, he has almost finished it!
Shamefully, I have about 4 that I've started more than a year ago.
When he came last Saturday to show his progress, he also brought along a crayon to indicate heat on his blade for heat treating.
Thermomelt sticks - Markal
Have you (or anyone else) seen or used them before?
Regards,
Peter
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14th Sep 2011, 11:51 AM #114.
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Pete ,
I was hoping to lean on Ray, Peter Mcbride and anyone else versed in the selection of appropriate steel for guidance. It has been discussed I dare say, ad nauseum, over in the woodie forum. Maybe I have to wade through those posts. Whilst I could buy a Hock blade ( and I might still do so ) it's not the same as something home made and tweeked to fit my lookalike.
Peter,
It's good to hear from you. Whilst I have a heat treatment oven, kindly given to me by fellow forum member Alan "C-47", it is in bits and requires my full attention and some of Alan's to reassemble the thing. I'm definitely out of my league when it comes to heat treatment. The crayons are in Ray's province.
BT
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14th Sep 2011, 12:28 PM #115Most Valued Member
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Bob, I was thinking of buying some strips of D2 in from the US. Most of my planes already have very good blades so it was only an exercise (and I have plenty of them on the go at the moment, hence why I haven't pursued it). I figured the small amount I'd be ordering I'd just have them post it over. There are many other steel types available if D2 isn't your cup of tea. I was going to order from these guys, but again there are other alternatives.
Order Tool Steel Rectangle Alloys 1018, A2, D2, H13, O1, S7, W1 in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com
Pete
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14th Sep 2011, 05:06 PM #116
Hi All,
PeteF, thanks for that link to the D2 supplier, that will come in very handy. There have been problems dealing with Bohler for the forum group purchase M2 for chisels and plane blades. I think we will be looking to buy off shore in future.
Bob, you are correct, there are endless discussions on the various steels used in plane blades and chisels, if I can summarize..
O1 or just good ole high carbon steel, is easy to heat treat with minimal equipment, it is very fine grained, which means it takes a beautiful razor sharp edge, it can be easily sharpened with regular stones and techniques. The edge durability is not as good as some of the newer steels, but it's easy and quick to sharpen.
A2, Hock, Lie Nielsen and others offer cryro A2, the edge is more durable than 01, but it's harder to heat treat, usually requires controlled atmosphere, ie stainless foil envelopes and such. the sharpening techniques are a little different, but stones are fine, shaptons are good.
M2 Hard to heat treat, requires a good temperature controlled oven, takes a good edge, and very durable, time between sharpenings is increased, the downside is it's harder to sharpen, some stones work well, some not so well. M2 has great hot work properties, keeps it's hardness at red heat.
Don't know much about D2, I read that it's very durable but doesn't take an edge quite like O1 does. I think it's impact resistance is good, that might be a good thing for chisels that are going to be hit with a hammer, and I hear it's hard to sharpen.
So, I can easily make an 01 blade for you, or an M2 blade (or both if you like) Josh and I will be grinding plane blades in the next month, I think there's over a hundred plane blades and two hundred chisels we have to do.
Thanks for the link to those crayons Peter, I've been looking for those. I want to use a couple of markers to verify the oven temperatures.
Regards
Ray
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14th Sep 2011, 05:39 PM #117Diamond Member
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Plane Blades
Thanks RayG for your summary of steels for plane blades.
I was at the Lie Nielsen factory Manufacturing operation in Maine (North East USA) a little while back. Fortunate enough to have a detailed factory tour, & took notice of their Plane Blade operations.
They make blades in A2 & O1 steel & were heat treating the A2 steel at the time of my visit.
The steel was heated to hardening temp & then went to tempering & then to cryogenic minus a few hundred degrees which improved structure & hardness & then went through another tempering process.
Blades were then wet surface ground.
I am a bit of a woodworking nut as well as doing hobby metal machining & had been using M2 blades in my wood plane assortment for hand planing..Occasionally the M2 steel would get a small nick in it for some unkown reason (the defect could be seen under magnification) & I put it down to brittleness. The blade angle was 25 degree with a honing angle of 30 degrees.I tried steeper angles without success.
Then tried the Lie Nielsen blade over a period of time, & found it to be so good that I have since replaced all of my plane blades with the Lie Nielsen product.
All of my honing is done on 1000# & then 8000# Shapton wet stones also purchased in the USA. I use a Veritas brand honing guide to maintain precise angles.
A sharp finely tuned blade in a plane is a delight to use.
Occasionally I will restore old planes for keen woodworkers on my surface grinder, to bring the bottoms back to within half a thou of flatness. This contributes greatly to the planes effectiveness.
After reading your article I thought I would contribute this from my experiences.
Bruce
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14th Sep 2011, 06:17 PM #118.
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It's looking like I had better hide my box of low knob Stanleys with their original blades, in case I receive a site inspection from one of you blokes.
I've certainly been left behind .
BT
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14th Sep 2011, 07:12 PM #119Diamond Member
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Plane Blades
Bob
No way have you been left behind.
I would say that we are trying to keep up with you !
regards
Bruce
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14th Sep 2011, 07:30 PM #120
Hi Bob,
Bruce beat me to it, I'd say we are chasing you based on the progress you are making on your plane..
Thanks for the insights into Lie Nielsen factory operation Bruce, they are a good example of a US based manufacturing operation that's doing things the "right way"
Off topic.. I've got some half formed plans to try some cryogenic hardening, I've found out you can buy dry ice by the kg from CIG, you just turn up with an esky and they'll fill it up for you..
Regards
Ray
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