Page 1 of 11 123456 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 158
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default Adventures with cast iron - a wood plane.

    I had previously mentioned in the Woodie forum that I was keen to have a go at making a rough copy of a Norris 50 cast iron bodied smoothing plane.
    http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/m...-forum-131944/

    In reality, the project is a exercise in milling and consequently, there may be more interest (and advice) here than in the wood working forum so I will document the adventure here. It will be an opportunity to find out how versatile the fat 13 is.

    Forum member, Peter "Lightwood" McBride has a beautiful cast bronze 50G Norris, and has provided me with photos and drawings of his plane. Below are photos of a 50G ( not Peter's ) and a cast iron 50. Someone else we know has a Norris 51 but his camera is turned off.

    Bob.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Heidelberg, Victoria
    Age
    79
    Posts
    2,074

    Default

    Hi AB.

    That's an adventuristic, ambitious project. Would it be more prudent to knock up a rough wooden pattern and have the body cast in iron leaving you only the machined surfaces to mill.

    Machining it out of a solid piece of cast iron would be a nightmare, not to mention the mess and waste of material.

    I've never heard of those planes, (not a woodie) but they certainly are a thing of beauty, especially the cast bronze one. What sort of timber will you use for the handles?

    How will you mill the curved sides? In order to gauge the size, what is the width and length?

    What's a Fat 13? Are we talking a chubby 13 year old school kid?

    Ken

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hi Ken ,
    I think mebbe the Norris 51 smoothing plane is a straight sided squarish plane. The pics on 2 diffrent plane sites I googled showed that.

    I think the plane illustration curves on our forum are down to a camera lens issue.

    Would not the pattern remain on the outside and only the straight sides and plane mouth opening be milled.
    just asking?

    Grahame

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Ken and Grahame,

    No camera lens distortion. The 50 has curved sides, the 51 has straight sides. The base casting is roughly 220mm x 70mm x 50mm high.

    The fat 13 is my plump Schaublin mill, it makes GQ's Deckel look anorexic.

    It would take me nearly as long to make a pattern as it will to mill the base.

    The wood will be a piece of English walnut ( first and second photos below ), kindly provided to me by Ray G and his gunsmith mate Colin. That will be used for the front "bun" and I have a choice of two pieces of Californian Claro walnut for the closed rear handle

    Here is a link to a post in the woodie forum about a couple of little planes I made ages ago - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/d...planes-131603/

    As far as difficulty goes, I don't imagine it will be real easy but the Hercus div. head tailstock wasn't either.

    The internal curved sides will be a challenge. I may be able to set up some sort of outrigger on my 6 inch rotary table to machine the large radius required, or I may be able to acheive a similar result by rotating the mill's table. Haven't work that one out yet.

    BT
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hey Bob,
    If it was easy,everyone would be doing it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Hi Bob,

    It occurred to me that you may not be aware of Karl Holtey's web site, if you are already then maybe there are others haven't see it.

    I find the blog the most interesting..

    From the Workshop

    Here is the blog on the A6
    A6 Norris Styled Smoother « From the Workshop

    Regards
    Ray

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Fabulous Gold-plated Coast.
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,251

    Default My camera is on stand-by.

    AB, sometime before the end of the month I will again be home, and after I perform one long delayed chore for a Brisbane area member I'll do a photo essay with measured drawings of my 51 Norris. As you might recall it sports a 1913 patent date on the adjuster, and straight sides. It is a mahogany and ductile iron plane, but with non-standard modifications which will be explained in detail. I also own a gunmetal Mathieson smoother which I actually prefer despite its lack of adjuster. I think a Norris smoother in a cast bronze body would be the ticket. Otherwise, I just met someone who gets parts for full sized locomotives cast locally on a regular basis, so that too might be an option.

    I'd love to get a limited run of cast bronze bodies made for a 4, 6, 7 size family of infill planes. I know Lie-Nielsen's pattern maker: I might ask him to do the woodworking instead of my usual Picassoesque efforts. My workshop is already enough of an abstract construct without free-form tools too.

    GQ

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In the shed, Melbourne
    Age
    52
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    I find the blog the most interesting..

    From the Workshop

    Here is the blog on the A6
    A6 Norris Styled Smoother « From the Workshop

    Regards
    Ray
    I've just spent the last two hours drooling over his bogs. Oh, to have lots of disposable money.
    I make things, I just take a long time.

    www.brandhouse.net.au

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Grahame,
    It is possible to purchase a cast bronze 50 "kit" from the St James Bay Tool Company for 155 bucks - St. James Bay Home but it's not the same as making your own. I have the gear and the patience so why not? Might take a while, I started my bronze A17 lookalike 20 years ago and that's not finished yet. Hopefully I will bowl this one over in a shorter period.

    I had looked at Karl's work about a month ago and was stunned. The bloke does not muck around. His workmanship is exquisite. What I loved were the Rohm triplets mounted on the mill table!

    Ray, I need to discuss milling timber at slow speeds with you.

    I look forward to the essay GQ. You and your free form tools!!

    Here's this arvo's results. I had to chop away the rear of the cast iron block and had 3 choices as to how I would do it. All slow. Hacksaw by hand, the shaper or the mill. Used an 1 1/4" end mill and cut off about 10 x 10mm each pass. About 30 passes with power feed. It might have been quicker to set up a saw on the horizontal arbor and cut the bar from each side and across the bar, then finish it off with a hacksaw in the vise. Hindsight is nice.

    And KJ, lots of swarf !
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    Hi Bob,
    I will be watching with interest.

    Ray,
    I have seen that website a while back, beautiful work. It wont be long before you have that CNC up and running and I can see you making planes just as good, if not better.

    Dave

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    Hi Bob,
    I will be watching with interest.

    Ray,
    I have seen that website a while back, beautiful work. It wont be long before you have that CNC up and running and I can see you making planes just as good, if not better.

    Dave
    Thanks Dave, I wish !! Have you seen how much he charges for one of those planes?

    The furnace upgrade is back on the agenda this week, so watch out for molten iron!

    Regards
    Ray

  12. #12
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    From what I saw of your timber thread and tap/nut it wont be long.
    I remember seeing the price but can't remember it now.
    I see down further he shows doing the beveling on the sides with a file and wet and dry paper. That must have been before he bought the CNC or to put people off thinking it was done by hand.
    With CNC it makes jobs like that so easy as long as your cutters are sharp.

    Dave

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    I remember seeing the price but can't remember it now.
    Hi Dave,

    Try 7000 pounds for a large panel plane... that's somewhere north of $11,000

    I bet Bob could make an even better one for around $10,000 each?

    Regards
    Ray

  14. #14
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    And here I was thinking it was around $1100.
    I know they are nice but but at those prices you would never want to use it, thats if you where that rich enough to buy a hand plan for that much. Being a home machinist, I can not see the money in it and the steel wouldn't cost much.

    I am looking forward to Bob's build, he seems to like working with cast and has carved some nice gear out of it in the past.
    I have a few, but I have never been a big fan of hand planes. There OK for the odd bit of work like fitting a door or something, but the electric one is much easier. lol

    A question to you and Bob, do craftsman look down at fabricated planes like those in the link, compared to quality cast iron one?

    Dave

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post

    A question to you and Bob, do craftsman look down at fabricated planes like those in the link, compared to quality cast iron one?

    Dave
    Hi Dave,

    Interesting question, I think the traditional view is that infill planes (however they are made) are regarded by most as a better quality and function better for smoothing than a cast iron plane. (By cast iron I mean like a Stanley No 4). Bob's infill, will be up there with the best of them.

    The extra weight and rigidity of an infill plane is part of the answer, but I think a lot of the real difference is in perception rather than reality. Tom Lie Nielson famously said a plane is just a holder for a chisel... I made an infill smoother a while back and use it regularly.

    As to the price on Holtey planes, I see them as a work of art, and while they are way out of my price range, I would love to own one, and if I did I would use it like any other tool. Are they worth $11,000?, I think they are probably cheap considering the work that goes into them, and the cost of the machine shop equipment. Not to mention the years of experience that goes into the design. It's not the materials cost, and it's not a mass produced item. Definitely not on my tool budget however.. I would probably buy a vintage Norris or Spiers..

    I have however a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people who buy these high end tools, never actually use them.

    Regards
    Ray

Page 1 of 11 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A Cast Iron Delight
    By Anorak Bob in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 7th Mar 2011, 12:26 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •