Thread: Best metal work vice

Originally Posted by Pete F

Bob I think my table is just 5 mm (sorry I'm not home at the moment so can't check), hot rolled. My table is about 1 m2, so I'm guessing about the same size as yours, and I've never found any need to have anything thicker. I TIG exclusively and don't however tack to my table, if you were going to do a lot of that (and subsequently grind the tacks off, maybe a thicker top may be useful???). It would however be very heavy and quite expensive at 19 mm.

Thanks for all the info. My original plan was to use a 6 mm top but then I spoke to one guy who said you should use 12 mm minimum. So I set my sights on 12 mm but the next guy I spoke to says you should use 19 mm, then the next guy says 25 mm . . . . . . .

I got a quote on a new piece of 25 mm at 900 x 600 and the price was $324 so that is not happening. I'm in no rush to complete the top, for the moment I have two 6 mm plate pieces that I will throw on there and I will look around for scrap pieces and I will find something eventually. Two weeks ago I saw 4.5 m of 20 mm x 100 mm bar on Gumtree for $30! but it had gone by the time I called.

The 900 x 600 size gives me a 25 mm overhang but I'll take your advice and go for at least 50 mm. I can't go too much more on width as that is about all the space I want to allocate for this table. I am going to build a bi-folding door booth arrangement that will wrap around the front and sides of the table that will be vented by an exhaust fan to get the welding fumes etc out of the shed.

One thing I did do however is ask them to guillotine it exactly square (well "square" by welding terms anyway) and it overhangs the frame by 50 mm (again just a guess without looking). Both features have proven absolutely invaluable since I've had it, as I normally clamp using the corners as references, the quick action or C clamps I use can easily be positioned anywhere along an edge and clamped down, confident that the pieces will be along straight edges and square to each other. I don't know if wanting an 19 mm thick table may present difficulties in achieving the requirements of a nice square table with straight edges. If I were to build another one I'd possibly aim for even more overhang as occasionally I run into the frame when clamping.

Square cutting a big thick plate is no problem for my mate who operates a mining machinery fabrication business. His big plasma plate cutter can do the most amazing cuts. Im also thinking of getting him to cut some long keyways into the top to poke clamps through and provide more clamping flexibility - like the commercial welding tables have.

I use a vice quite a bit when I'm welding. I have shaky hands so I often need to use my left hand to provide a leaning point for my right hand. This means my left hand is not always avaialbel to hold pieces so the pieces have to be locked down before I start so I'm often using a couple of clamps and the vice to hold the pieces. If I don't do that the electrode wanders about quite a bit during the weld.

Holes in it sound like a good idea Bob, it would be an easy job for a CNC plasma cutter. I built "dog holes" into my (very solid) woodworking bench and use them a lot. I can imagine them being similarly useful on a welding table. If you do go with the thick plate can you do me a favour and post a photograph of the result? I haven't really taken much notice of the plasma cuts on thicker plate and would like to see how good they are. Greg Q and I were only talking about plasma cutters yesterday, they're as cheap as peanuts in Hong Kong, and quite portable. Running the torch along a guide could be useful if the cuts are good enough quality. They sure work great on thin plate!!!

As far as the thickness, has anyone who suggested going thicker volunteered a reason as to why? I find even with welding aluminium not that much heat goes into the table (relatively speaking, it still gets $%^*ing hot however) so I'm curious as to why they would suggest such thick material? I've never had mine warp at all. Hopefully one day I'll find myself with a larger workshop, in which case a bigger welding table is a must (I use it for all sorts of things in addition where a steel surface is needed). It would be nice to file away any hints on how to make the next one better if/when the time comes.

Pete

Edit: sorry Bob, I meant to ask earlier and kept forgetting but see from your last post that you're talking about stick welding v me talking about TIG. I very rarely stick weld as my rods are crap, and the operator even worse!!! But I've seen guys tacking to the table quite a bit when stick welding to maybe that's the reason for the thicker top(????)

For a discussion on welding table thickness have a look here.

Stustoys supplies an interesting quote; "As a rough rule(which I just made up to the best of my knowledge) The bench top should be at least twice as thick as anything you are going to weld to it."

There seem to be two reasons for a thick bench top. One is that some like to tack work to it while welding. To clean this off you then need to grind, so you need thickness to 'consume'.
The other reason is that concentrated heat in one spot (whether from tacking or welding directly over a point) will locally heat the top, causing expansion. This will then distort the table. A thick table will be more likely to dissipate that heat before it causes distortion.
It depends on what you plan to do and your welding style, but I can't see that there would be anything wrong with a 6mm top provided that you didn't tack onto it and were careful about putting heat into it (for example, not butt welding two 3mm strips laid directly on the table with 90A).
Backing with wood is (in my opinion) dangerous, not only from a fire perspective but also because of the fumes that may come off when the glue is heated.
In this thread http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/me...92/index2.html there was also some discussion of welding table tops. In post post 21 I put a photo of a bench we have at work. If you wanted the thickness without as much of the cost, perhaps a slat top bench would be better.
Thin can work if you are mindful of what you are doing. Industrial benches are thick for a number of reason -

• Welders will tack to them despite what you might tell them
• Heat distortion (welding 1/2" and thicker plate does take some heat)
• Large heavy assemblies on them (some of ours are over 250kg)
• Typically large work areas (like 8'x4') need the thickness for rigidity

In comparison, you are looking at 3'x2' and at a guess are unlikely to have anything on there much over say 10 to 20 kg on it.


Michael

Thanks for the explanation Michael.

I'm not planning to tack to the bench, but if I did decide to I don't want to then have to turn around and change the top. I do plan to weld thickish (~12 mm) stuff from time to time and to do that directly on the bench. Mostly I use a welder to make rigs and jigs for my chainsaw mills so the jobs tend to be smallish and chunky.

Like this

and this

Bob, following Michael's leads I thought I'd put a link in to this catalogue that may give you some ideas. Maybe thinking along the lines of the strips will also help finding suitable material, and allow a thicker material at a realistic cost compared to large plate.
http://www.stronghandtools.com/pdf_c...ildpro_imp.pdf

As Michael said, the ability to self-support and also not distort would be major considerations. However even VERY serious tables like those above are nothing like the thickness some people have suggested to you earlier. Obviously thicker is better, all very nice if somebody else is paying the bills and the table is being used constantly. However I didn't get the impression any of the above applied in your situation

The work you're doing is very similar to what I do (albeit TIG) and I also don't like tacking to the table. I consider it a reference surface and try to keep it pristine. I can't see any good reason (other than laziness) to tack to a table when perfectly good clamps are available.

Pete

Edit: regarding the thicker welds Bob, I routinely weld at >140A and/or aluminium, both are putting a lot of heat out. TIG also tends to have the heat in one spot much longer than say MIG. I haven't had a problem with my top warping in any way. I intentionally only tacked it on at the corners IIRC (sorry I can't check) so it could move if necessary.

Originally Posted by Pete F

Bob, following Michael's leads I thought I'd put a link in to this catalogue that may give you some ideas. Maybe thinking along the lines of the strips will also help finding suitable material, and allow a thicker material at a realistic cost compared to large plate.
http://www.stronghandtools.com/pdf_c...ildpro_imp.pdf.

Yeah that's more or less what I had in mind. The piece of bar on Gumtree was 4.5 m long and being 100 x 20 mm I could have cut it into 5, 900 mm long pieces and that would have given me a top with 4, 25 mm wide full table length slots in it through which I could have inserted clamps. A new bar that size costs about $150 which is a bit more than I want to fork over at the moment.

Like I said I am in no rush and will keep looking.

Regarding mounting the vice, I was thinking about drilling mounting holes in the bench top and bolting the vice on each time I need it. If the bench top is thick enough I suppose I could even tap the holes. Any faults with this plan?

Originally Posted by Pete F

Greg Q and I were only talking about plasma cutters yesterday, they're as cheap as peanuts in Hong Kong, and quite portable.

Pete,
Have you been to the shop in Reclamation St that sells the lime green welding & cutting gear? It's a new shop and I can't recall the number, but it's on the left as you head north. It looks very nicely made. It's Chinese, but the owner tells me they use Japanese gas valves in their stuff. Seemed like an honest and knowledgeable bloke. He has at least one model of plasma cutter. Might be worth a look.

Chris

Originally Posted by jack620

Regarding mounting the vice, I was thinking about drilling mounting holes in the bench top and bolting the vice on each time I need it. If the bench top is thick enough I suppose I could even tap the holes. Any faults with this plan?

Not really, except bolts are too slow. I guess it depends how often you plan to operate wit/without a vice and how patient you are. I had the bolt approach in mind when I made my first welding bench 35 years ago. In that time I think I might have removed the vice maybe 3 times. For me the mechanism needs to be quick enough so I remove/replace the vice multiple times during a job.

Originally Posted by jack620

Pete,
Have you been to the shop in Reclamation St that sells the lime green welding & cutting gear? It's a new shop and I can't recall the number, but it's on the left as you head north. It looks very nicely made. It's Chinese, but the owner tells me they use Japanese gas valves in their stuff. Seemed like an honest and knowledgeable bloke. He has at least one model of plasma cutter. Might be worth a look.

Chris

Hey thanks Chris. To answer your question, yes I would have been in that shop (I can confidently say that only because I've been in ALL the shops ... countless times ha ha), however can't say I recall that particular one. Normally I'm up there about once every 2 weeks, but this roster I'm going backwards and forwards to Singapore. It's funny how that works, I don't go to a place for ages, next thing I know I can't get away from the place. Have you had a look in Google Street view? If you can find it there I'll either remember the place or will be sure to check it out next time I'm up there.

If that's what the owner says it's a good chance he's right. It's a funny place in that regard, you go there expecting to find a sea of crap, and while that standard is typically also available, instead if you look past that most of the gear sold is really good quality, MUCH better than the crap offered from the usual outlets here in Oz who, not simply being content with offering better quality Chinese products, will screw each manufacturer until they find the absolute cheapest POS that has a label on the box matching something the retailer can sell.

As far as bolting the vice to a thinner table, I guess you could always weld a doubler plate to it and tap both. However it it's coming on and off a lot the threads may eventually become damaged and/or wear. In that case it may be better to simply pass bolts through the table and use nuts. Alternatively get creative and figure out some type of keyhole or other arrangement so the vice can slide into position and simply be prevented from moving by fasteners.

Just getting back to the top thickness, I don't want to give the idea that I'm against a thick top, far from it. It's just that I get the impression most here are in the same position as myself; occasional welding on a table that's coming out of my wallet. If somebody else was paying for it, or I was using it constantly, I'd say go for a thicker top. I merely wanted to point out that I haven't seen some of the things happening as mentioned by others. When I built it I similarly feared the table would warp, but so far so good.

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

I can confidently say that only because I've been in ALL the shops ... countless times ha ha

Ditto. I saw this shop for the first time just before xmas. I'm up there again in a few weeks. Will try to get some prices.

Thanks for that. Between yourself, Greg and I, we would could form a consortium of Reclamation Street power buyers!

I would think that for home use a top say 10mm thick (whether slats or continuous) would be fine. If you used slats you could attach them only at one end and any heat expansion would therefore not cause them to distort.
My concern with head distortion may be over stated, but if you are using a gas torch or using the table surface as a backing plate, the heat has to go somewhere. If you are welding a piece of tube or angle and it is not sitting directly on the table surface, the surface will get far less head.

Michael