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  1. #1
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    Default Where to start with 3D printers

    I am overwhelmed with trying to get a handle on selecting a first 3D printer. So far I see the 2 main types being filament and resin. Resin seems better for higher detail and filament for larger pieces (at least for the cheap end of market). I initially want to print some design prototypes for folding knives but I know there will be a large range of things I start to see as possible with a printer. I will want to be able to print at least 20cm long piece so I am thinking it is meaning filament type. Can anyone suggest a good place to start to get a feel for various models etc? Maybe a decent local 3d printer forum? YouTube is my usual go to but I see that being better once I’ve narrowed down to a couple of options.

    Thanks
    Ian

  2. #2
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I would start with this.
    https://youtu.be/JCHUOQ7yby0

    The presenter dude (Michael Laws) is not exactly my favourite person (won't go into this here)
    BUT
    He does know a heap about 3D printing and lays the facts out about 3D printers for beginners.
    Most of his other tutorials are spot on and agree with what I have experienced.

    Spending a few hours on checking out reviews etc is well worth it because as Michael Laws says in his intro "you need to align your printer choice with what you want to achieve"
    Be prepared to spend time on a number of learning curves
    - mechanically dealing with the printer itself - endless things can go wrong with them - much more than other digital tech - especially if you want to upgrade bits or certain aspects of printing.
    - dealing with the printer software - usually not that big of a deal
    - learning how to use a slicing program - most have default settings but they have hundreds of things you can tweak to get where t=you really want to go
    - if you want to generate your own plans you will need to learn some form of CAD - this can be a can of worms.

    If you go for a budget end printer be prepared to waste a lot of plastic on failed prints.
    OTOH if you stick with it you will learn a lot about how printers work and how to fix them.
    If you are not prepared to "futz" endlessly with the printer then buy a more expensive one although that's no guarantee either.

    What sort of a budget have you got?
    If you want to be active and want to get up those learning curves quickly prepared to use up loads of filament (hence $$)
    My printer cost about $700 but in 12 months I have used up about 20 rolls of filament and at average of ~$30 a roll that's as much as the printer

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default

    I’ve been going down this road this year and in a similar position to you. I looked at both types and decided against resin as I don’t wish to be messing around with chemicals and went with a filament printer.

    Initially thought I’d go budget and decided on the popular Ender model 3 but researching found the most were upgrading so I bought one with the upgrades an Ender 3S1. Assembly was simple but beware of auto bed leveling during setup. It has to manually leveled first! DAMHIK. Mine cost around $550 at the time.

    The first prints with the sample PLA filament and files turned out fine. I then went with PLA+ and had to tweak some settings in the slicer. I use Cura and it works well for me. To date I’ve not had any issues with the printer. Prints very good in my opinion, robust and accurate.

    That’s fine to print STL files of other people’s designs. However 3D design is a whole new ballgame for me. I started with Fusion 360 and found it so frustrating I tried a few others that were ok but the free versions had limitations. It must have been that practice because when I went back to Fusion 360 it started to click and produce models.

    That’s my experience and found it rewarding and agree with Bob’s advice on budget and what you want to achieve.

  4. #4
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple8 View Post
    The first prints with the sample PLA filament and files turned out fine. I then went with PLA+ and had to tweak some settings in the slicer. I use Cura and it works well for me. To date I’ve not had any issues with the printer. Prints very good in my opinion, robust and accurate.
    As I said in my post I've gone through about 20 rolls of filament (17 rolls of PLA, 2 rolls of PLA+ and one roll of PETG) in my first year of printing, and currently have around 20 rolls in my stash. About half my current stash is partially used rolls of ABS, PLA nd PETG given to me by my son from his stash.

    Any old and cheap PLA (ie $20/roll on ebay) absorbs water which leads to printing problems. Storing PLA (all filaments really) in vacuum storage bags along with a couple of bags of desiccant makes a difference. But if a roll sits for a long time on the printer in the open air it will absorb moisture so putting in in a dehumidifier at 40ºC for a couple of hours will dry it out. For a dehumidifier I bought a food dehydrator chamber ($50 on ebay) and it works a treat plus I can use it for food dehydration as well. Dont be tempted to use more than 40ºC on PLA as the filament can start to slightly adhere to itself making it difficult to remove from the roll.

    PLA+ is not fixed formula plastic. Its a PLA with additives, added mainly to reduce moisture absorbance but I agree it does print nicely.

    Like most things you get what you pay for.
    With the budget end PLA (ie $20/roll on ebay) I found I got more problems than when using quality PLA.
    One roll of super cheap PLA (ie $10/roll on ebay) would constantly clog the nozzles so badly I ended up chucking it out.
    If I'm doing long/large prints I've found it much better to use a quality PLA as its far less likely to stuff up and waste a lot of time.
    I get my quality filament material from X3D.com.au. None of their stiff is cheap with their standard PLA price ~$35 a roll, but I usually buy several rolls when it comes on special at $30/roll.
    They also knowledgable and use what they are selling and are very helpful with advice about their products - something most ebay sellers are not able to do.
    I really like the look and finish of their standard "PLA matt" filament.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Thanks for the comments guys. As far as budget goes I was hoping sub $500 but the more I read maybe for what I want that isn’t going to be so easy. I don’t really want to play around with settings etc heaps so looking for more a unit that works well out of the box.

    My other option is to get a couple of things printed by a print service. It’s hard to get a handle on the cost of these until I make up a design etc to have printed. Is there anyone using a one-off print service that they recommend?

  6. #6
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger Mouse View Post
    Thanks for the comments guys. As far as budget goes I was hoping sub $500 but the more I read maybe for what I want that isn’t going to be so easy. I don’t really want to play around with settings etc heaps so looking for more a unit that works well out of the box.
    Anything under the $500 is going to require assembly and maybe extensive calibration etc and is unlikely to work straight out of the box. Even above $500 there will be considerable setup and some calibration time.

    As guide, my sons recent Ender3 clone kit from China purchased a couple of years ago cost about $250. He's got about 5+ years with 3 different 3D printers experience including substantial mods of all of them. It took him about 7 hours to assemble the kit and get it working properly.

    My $700 printer came largely assembled but still took about 70 minutes from opening the box to first print going this was with my son doing most of the setup.

    If you don't want to mess about with kits/assembly etc and think you will need support then you should consider buying a printer fully assembled from a 3D printer store. That way if things go wrong you have someone to talks to for support. and Ender3 fully with a 220 x 220 x 250 build volume fully assembled from someone like Altronics costs ~$500. I'm not sure what sort of support they can provide.

    It sounds like you would need to go to a dedicated 3D printer store and see what they have to offer.

    My other option is to get a couple of things printed by a print service. It’s hard to get a handle on the cost of these until I make up a design etc to have printed. Is there anyone using a one-off print service that they recommend?
    If you are designing the objects using a CAD program then expect to print objects more than once. For stuff where things have to fit other objects - especially other 3D printed objects, expect to print out multiple times. If parts break too easily, support for printing into empty space is needed and subsequent tweaks/additions are needed more test prints will be needed. For anything with a tight fit I usually have to print a basic prototype, then make corrections for shrinkage and warpage etc and print again, and often a 3rd time to get a super close fit. Then you can churn them out by the dozen. Multiple printing of prototype becomes cost prohibitive and slow if a printing service is involved.

    To save on filament and deal with support issues it can pay to break projects up into various pieces that eventually fit together.
    But then you have to make sure they do fit.

    This hand sander project required me to print the top (PLA black part) 3 times) and the base plate (White PETG) 5 times before I got it right
    The flange was printed 4 times to get it to fit properly.
    Allup0.jpg

    If you could show a drawing/plan of what you want dto achieve I could maybe give you some advice on how complex it would be to design and print.

  7. #7
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    Default

    I will agree with BobL in that doing the CAD work and outsourcing the actual 3d printing to a print service is not going to be cost effective and its not un usual to re-design or adjust the CAD designs and print a few prototypes before we get the design perfect. Owning your own 3d printer helps fast track the process.

    You can start with a cheap 3d printer but you have to be patient enough to setup the printer.

    One thing I will add here is that I never wanted 3d printing to be a hobby but rather facilitate my hobby as a tool.

    Having said that, I have a friend who even struggled with a Prusa because there is a learning curve to 3d printing especially when experimenting with designs and filaments and print strategies such a part placement to minimize use of supports or align the parts for maximum strength in a particular direction.

  8. #8
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    I agree with all the comments made above.
    My 2 cents' worth is: learn 3D modelling first! Printing is the tool to materialise your designs. Not a a starting point.
    It's nothing like machining! Where you can "remove everything that doesn't look like the part you want". You start with empty space and have to tell it how to fill that space with the part you want. If you don't know how, there is no point owning one yet.
    Fusion 360 has possibly the best free educational support, manuals, youtube, forums etc. I ended up doing a year long subject at TAFE in 3D-modelling before I could get a useful handle on it (that is after many years of attempting to learn CAD sporadically since the late '80s. Each time giving up in disgust after some months and going back to a drawing board and ink - I was an engineering draftsman in the '70s).
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  9. #9
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    I agree with all the comments made above.
    My 2 cents' worth is: learn 3D modelling first! Printing is the tool to materialise your designs. Not a a starting point.
    It's nothing like machining! Where you can "remove everything that doesn't look like the part you want". You start with empty space and have to tell it how to fill that space with the part you want. If you don't know how, there is no point owning one yet.
    Sorry Joe I don't agree with this.
    For a start it's not a natural way to learn most things which involves a lot of trial and error, playing around with various aspects of processes, small uses of a bit of this and then that, and constantly trying to get value out of just a few small bits of knowledge. Learning metal work, wood work, are similar examples.

    As you put it, the process can be broken up into two general areas or processes, designing and printing.

    There are so many free 3D printing plans already out there that can be used to immediately print "useful" stuff while learning about the printing process eg things like getting the printer working, printer slicer software, printer operation basics, printing materials, and general problem solving of printing issues. For many users (eg some mens shed guys) this is enough for a number of years before they decide to either learn design, or move off to something completely different.

    Learning what a printer can do has some advantages that can inform the design process - like it quickly becomes apparent that most printers can't start printing out in the middle of empty space so either end up wasting material on support structures. Designing layouts that minimise the use of or eliminates support is worth knowing about.

    Most folks that start 3D printing have no interest in initially learning the design process, but starting with the printing process can become a significant driver to get them into the design process as it will quickly show the limitations of just using someone else's plans. This works especially well for kids.

    Before I bought my printer I knew what I eventually wanted to do with it (ie make unavailable dust extraction transitions, fitttings etc) and knew I would have to eventually learn some design process. However, I did not really start to learn any design processes until about 6 months after I bought the printer and I still have heaps to learn bout design. 15 months on I still don't really know that much much about the ins and outs of the design process but enough to make me productive and to keep me going on the learning.

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