Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: UPS info

  1. #1
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,183

    Default UPS info

    Some of my 3D prints are taking longer to complete, the longest so far being ~36 hours. I can speed things up (bigger nozzle, thicker layers, faster print head speed etc) and need to explore this, but if we get even a second of power failure part way through printing, the print is basically lost and one has to start again.
    So was thinking of a UPS?

    We very rarely have long power outages *the last one here was in 2018) so just need something that would cope the relatively few (seconds/mins) power drop outs that we get from time to time. The printer itself is rated up to 480W so the UPS needn't be a massive thing but I believe you have allow for significant redundancy so was looking to double that - say 1000W? Does this sound right?

    Another aspect of UPS's I'm somewhat concerned about is the amount of power lost by working through a UPS. Estimates I have seen range from 5 to ~50W for a small UPS.

    Anyone have any experience with these things?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,444

    Default

    Hi Bob,

    I don't know what its like in AU, but here relatively small UPS's, 500W upto 2Kw tend to end up being scrapped because the batteries have failed ! These use the 12 volt "Yusa" dry or gel type batteries. Because they are running 24/7 the batteries get hammered by constant overcharging and rarely last more than a few years and are quite expensive to replace. I've used ordinary 12 volt car batteries externally to keep them going, but they don't last because they are under constant charge. Lead acid batteries need to be cycled to keep them in good condition.

    There are industrial UPS's that are far more expensive and rare that are able to control the battery conditions. They also are more likely to provide a proper sine wave output that is both stabilised and regulated, unlike the low cost ones that produce a sudo sine wave output which is quite spiky ! Fine for computers and printers that use switch mode power supplies internally.

    HTH.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default UPS info

    Bob, there are usually charts from the manufacturer that will show run time at different loads.
    I think there’s a typical rating of say 20mins output at 100% load or similar, so a 500w ups should provide 500w for 20mins.
    That will be fully discharged though which is not nice to the battery.
    With consumer level units they often only have the internal battery pack, so to get an hour at 500w you’d need to go to a 1500w unit sort of thing.

    As John said, it’s usually the batteries that fail, and cheaper units == cheaper batteries.

    A man of your talents I’m sure could hook up a larger battery to a small ups and get longer runtime. Typically the smaller ups’s are 12v SLA but I’d be pretty confident if you hooked one up to a decent size car lead acid or AGM it would work fine - just take longer to fully recharge as the internal charger will only be sized for a small battery.

    I may have a dead 1500w unit at work that I could remove the battery from to reduce weight and send over your way if you want to have a play.

    Edit: dead as in stuffed battery

    Steve

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Some of my 3D prints are taking longer to complete, the longest so far being ~36 hours. I can speed things up (bigger nozzle, thicker layers, faster print head speed etc) and need to explore this, but if we get even a second of power failure part way through printing, the print is basically lost and one has to start again.
    So was thinking of a UPS?

    We very rarely have long power outages *the last one here was in 2018) so just need something that would cope the relatively few (seconds/mins) power drop outs that we get from time to time. The printer itself is rated up to 480W so the UPS needn't be a massive thing but I believe you have allow for significant redundancy so was looking to double that - say 1000W? Does this sound right?

    Another aspect of UPS's I'm somewhat concerned about is the amount of power lost by working through a UPS. Estimates I have seen range from 5 to ~50W for a small UPS.

    Anyone have any experience with these things?

    A lot comes down to budget and expectations.

    A while ago I bought two of these:
    https://www.jaycar.com.au/1500va-900...h-usb/p/MP5207

    Both released their magic smoke long before the batteries would have died. I would consider them not fit for purpose as I would half expect them to burst into flames.

    I replaced them with these (1500VA units):
    https://www.apc.com/au/en/product/BR...tlets-5-surge/

    I got the additional external battery packs to go with them to extend the backup period.

    The APC units have been operating without problem for about eight years - I replaced the batteries in one of them (the most heavily used and with the heaviest load) after seven years.

    All of these are line interactive. I don't know what the standby power consumption is but it is small. An online type would use more power as the inverter operates continuously at (say) 80% efficiency.

    In essence, buy a proper UPS from a recognised UPS supplier - it will keep your equipment running without bursting into flames.

    Jack

  5. #5
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,183

    Default

    Thanks to all who replied.
    Budget is tight so I'll need to do a bit more research.

    I have a list of people that should be able to give me some practical advice, one interesting one being the next door neighbours cousin who installs security cameras backed up by UPSs for a living. There's also a swag of 3D printer people on line who use UPSs that could provide some insight.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,444

    Default

    Hi Bob,

    If you want to play then Steve's offer could be worth a shot ! Some UPS's have the ability to have the charge voltage adjusted. SLA/Gel batteries are usually charged at a slightly higher voltage than lead acid ones. The only other issue is the output waveform, some equipment might not like the sudo sine wave.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  7. #7
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,183

    Default

    Rang a few people last night and checked out a few online UPS reviews and have settled on the Cyberpower CP1500EPFC
    https://www.cyberpower.com/au/en/pro...cp1500epfclcda
    It was a bit more than I wanted to pay but the benefits seem worth it.

    1500/900W
    Pure sine wave output
    PFC - power factor correction.
    4ms switching time
    2 Year warranty on unit and batteries
    User replaceable 24V Lead acid sealed batteries
    38 dB operation
    2 USB outlets - could come in handy when not using the 3D printer and power fails.
    Batteries readily available including from several shop front stores in WA

    Cyberpower have been around since 1997 and make a wide range of UPS, including 3 Phase UPSs (14 to 600A) for data centres.
    Their UPSs are very popular with 3D printer community with users reporting no lost prints when operating within the specs of the UPS.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    76

    Default

    I also live in an area that has occasional short power dropouts – just long enough to take down any PC, server, or 3D printer, reset appliance clocks, and disconnect the Internet, among other things. To overcome the annoyance I have installed several UPSs, mainly small ones, where they are needed. My 3D printer and its associated PC & monitor are connected to an APC Back UPS 1400, which I like because it is compatible with apcupsd monitoring software, allowing me to check the state of the battery and log events. I also have a similar APC unit connected to some servers. For other PCs and my modem/router I use cheaper unbranded ones around 600VA size.

    The APC and unbranded models all seem to work pretty much the same, except that the unbranded ones often have some annoying features such as loud beepers than can’t be disabled, unreliable recovery when the power is restored, and lack of monitoring capability. Apart from that, the main issue with all of them is batteries. I’ve tried everything from cheap to expensive, but it’s rare to get more than 3-4 years from a set regardless. Sometimes the batteries will heat up and expand as they reach the end of their life, so it’s important to check them every now and then.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Rang a few people last night and checked out a few online UPS reviews and have settled on the Cyberpower CP1500EPFC
    https://www.cyberpower.com/au/en/pro...cp1500epfclcda
    It was a bit more than I wanted to pay but the benefits seem worth it.

    1500/900W
    Pure sine wave output
    PFC - power factor correction.
    4ms switching time
    2 Year warranty on unit and batteries
    User replaceable 24V Lead acid sealed batteries
    38 dB operation
    2 USB outlets - could come in handy when not using the 3D printer and power fails.
    Batteries readily available including from several shop front stores in WA

    Cyberpower have been around since 1997 and make a wide range of UPS, including 3 Phase UPSs (14 to 600A) for data centres.
    Their UPSs are very popular with 3D printer community with users reporting no lost prints when operating within the specs of the UPS.
    I'm sure that will provide the service you are looking for - it is quite similar to the APC spec.

    I, personally, am not concerned about the pure sine aspect as everything that is being supplied uses a switch mode power supply so the supply is rectified first up.

    As far as I know, the Cyberpower UPS is not power factor corrected. It is just compatible with loads that use active PFC.

    Happy printing.

    Jack

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexD View Post
    Apart from that, the main issue with all of them is batteries. I’ve tried everything from cheap to expensive, but it’s rare to get more than 3-4 years from a set regardless. Sometimes the batteries will heat up and expand as they reach the end of their life, so it’s important to check them every now and then.
    Perhaps I am just lucky but as I wrote earlier, I am getting about double that. It is possible to get longer lasting batteries but the cost goes up. I do have the extra battery pack so perhaps they last longer because they have an easier life.

    Jack

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    Just something to watch for anyone thinking about fitting larger batteries to a UPS. I am told many UPSs cooling capacity is matched to their battery Ahr rating. So if operating at a high % of their output simply adding batteries may do little for you.
    As an example the little GE UPS I have is rated to supply its max output for a whopping 4 minutes.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Just something to watch for anyone thinking about fitting larger batteries to a UPS. I am told many UPSs cooling capacity is matched to their battery Ahr rating. So if operating at a high % of their output simply adding batteries may do little for you.
    As an example the little GE UPS I have is rated to supply its max output for a whopping 4 minutes.
    In my case I have the factory external battery pack.

    For a UPS to be limited in that way, I would think it is a cheapie. For example, an online UPS must supply it's rated output continuously. The APC interactive UPS can have factory external batteries added extending its operating time several times.

    I think your GE UPS operating time is just the battery capacity. There are a lot of UPSs designed to supply power just long enough to shut down the load gracefully - and no longer.

    Jack

  13. #13
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,183

    Default

    We don't have many power dropouts and when we do they are usually in summer which is when I'm less likely to be 3D printing anyway.

    Last summer at the height of the heat waves there were hundreds of dropouts right across Perth but we only felt one. Well that's how many times we had to reset the microwave clock which is sometimes the only way I know this has happened.

    In winter with storms etc we used to get some but most of our area (not our St) now had underground power which I think has made a difference.

    In short I'm wondering if I really need a UPS but its a safe bet if I dont get one I will have problems with some of these longer prints

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alexandra Vic
    Age
    69
    Posts
    654

    Default

    Bob, I have had nothing to do with 3D printers, but have had a similar UPS supplying my NBN Fixed Wireless transceiver and modem for a few years. All our computers are laptops with 5hr+ batteries so the only thing we loose if the power goes down is the printer, and if in need we can print to PDF for storage and later printing. For the NBN transceiver and Telstra Gen 2 modem, the 1600WH UPS gives us close to 8hrs of back up. Because we are rural with a lot of trees to crash on power lines, the nearest maintenance depot being more than an hour away, and a few hundred km of cable to be verified once we loose power, our power cuts are often in the 5-6 hour time frame.

    What I am not sure of for your application is how the data is fed to the 3D printer. If you copy it to a USB stick or similar and physically connect that into a USB port on the printer, all should be fine as everything runs off backed up power. However, if you rely on drip feeding data from a computer via USB, WiFi, ethernet cable etc, you probably need to keep the entire chain powered up via the UPS as a power cut at the data source could be as wasteful as one at the 3D printer.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  15. #15
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by malb View Post
    What I am not sure of for your application is how the data is fed to the 3D printer. If you copy it to a USB stick or similar and physically connect that into a USB port on the printer, all should be fine as everything runs off backed up power. However, if you rely on drip feeding data from a computer via USB, WiFi, ethernet cable etc, you probably need to keep the entire chain powered up via the UPS as a power cut at the data source could be as wasteful as one at the 3D printer.
    I use SD cards to transfer the 3D printer files, its just safer. Not that my computer (Mac Laptop, battery lasts for about 10 hours depending on what its doing) locks up very often. It's so unusual I remember it's only happened once this year

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Old info
    By morrisman in forum ANTIQUE AND VINTAGE MACHINERY
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 17th Dec 2015, 12:23 PM
  2. Useful info
    By WesP in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 6th Oct 2014, 12:03 AM
  3. Top Hat Installation Info
    By bagman in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 27th May 2014, 10:29 AM
  4. Some good info here
    By neksmerj in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11th Mar 2011, 12:38 AM
  5. I need some more info
    By bitza500 in forum THE HERCUS AREA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10th Nov 2009, 04:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •