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Thread: winch motor

  1. #16
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    Alexandra Vic
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    Consider that there are two elements to the current draw, the static (unloaded) draw and the load draw. Your initial post said that you had measured a static draw of 17.5A for the unit winding in an unloaded cable. This is the current required to overcome electrical, mechanical and cable friction losses for the system.

    Once you apply a load to the cable and start winding in, the current will increase at a rate proportional to the effort you require the winch to produce in the cable. Using a pulley to create a double line system should in theory halve the effort required to do the task, but will also double the time it takes to do so as the winch has to wind twice as much cable. In reality there will be additional losses due to friction in the pulley etc, so the load component of the current will probably only reduce by 45% or so, rather than the theoretical 50%.

    The pulley system will reduce the load related component of the total current, but require the total current to flow for twice as long. If the single line load component is less than the static draw, the overall power drawn from the battery could be greater than it would for a direct pull, because the static current of approx 17.5A would be drawn for twice as long. Some experimentation while monitoring overall current and the time it is drawn for to compare direct and 2:1 reduction systems may be helpful, particularly if you are operating of the vehicle starting battery.

    Hope this helps, it might help us if there was a pic or sketch of what you are trying to do with the winch and how you anticipate configuring it. I am fairly familiar with wheelchair lifts for vehicles as I spent 10yrs as a tech/engineer in a school for kids with multiple disabilities and every school vehicle used for transporting children had lifts installed, as did many of the parents vehicles. Most were totally hydraulically operated except for one that was a combination of hydraulic and cable, and it was the one that gave most problems.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  2. #17
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    Guessing at the size of that drum, just how much cable you have on it will effect your ratio a lot also.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by malb View Post
    Hope this helps, it might help us if there was a pic or sketch of what you are trying to do with the winch and how you anticipate configuring it.
    Thanks Mal, yep it helps, I had a bit of a play with it again today.
    I was thinking about the timing... there is no alignment lugs or locating keys on the motor, so I loosened the screws a bit and wired it up with jumper leads and the clamp meter and twisted the end cap this way and that way, it revved up and down and the amps also went up and down in unison, i'll bet you can guess what i am going to do when I get a load on it

    Thank you Mal, I have updated a bit more about this here... https://metalworkforums.com/f303/t20...eel-chair-lift

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Guessing at the size of that drum, just how much cable you have on it will effect your ratio a lot also.
    G/day Stu, I was thinking to put one non working layer of cable on the spool that will hopefully give the cable a thread to guide it
    to where it is supposed to go???

  5. #20
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    Hi John, Guys,

    A lot of the car recovery trucks use very similar winches to the one in your pictures, they don't use anything to guide the cable onto the spool relying on the load to make the cable follow the previous turn. Also making the spool bigger with an extra layer of cable will increase the motor loading and hence the current draw.

    I've also noticed that the cables are quite oily ! I don't know if this is to preserve the cable or to make it slip more smoothly alongside the last turn. I used to have a 13 metre crank up tower that used a power winch and as long as I kept the cable lubricated the turns just followed the previous one.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    G/day Stu, I was thinking to put one non working layer of cable on the spool that will hopefully give the cable a thread to guide it
    to where it is supposed to go???
    Hi Shed,
    I believe you only need four wraps on the drum to start with. Assuming you are going to be pulling in a straight line, it should self guide from there*. Google "winch fleet angle" if you want some light reading.

    *depends a bit on your design. You don't want the point the cable is fixed to getting to close to the winch drum as the fleet angle goes up. But you might be able to change the length of cable so that the cable is near the center of the drum at the end of the pull.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi John, Guys,
    I've also noticed that the cables are quite oily ! I don't know if this is to preserve the cable or to make it slip more smoothly alongside the last turn. I used to have a 13 metre crank up tower that used a power winch and as long as I kept the cable lubricated the turns just followed the previous one.
    John when a cable bends around the winch or a pulley there would have to be a bit of sliding between the strands of cable as the outer side of the cable would need grow a bit, either that or the inner would have to shrink a bit, or there is grown' and shrinkn'
    on both sides as the cable bends and so they need to be lubed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Hi Shed,
    I believe you only need four wraps on the drum to start with. Assuming you are going to be pulling in a straight line, it should self guide from there*. Google "winch fleet angle" if you want some light reading.

    *depends a bit on your design. You don't want the point the cable is fixed to getting to close to the winch drum as the fleet angle goes up. But you might be able to change the length of cable so that the cable is near the center of the drum at the end of the pull.
    Thanks Stu, and i will check out "winch fleet angle" that sounds like pop eye the sailor lingo

  8. #23
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    I agree it would be timing to make the winch stronger for pulling.

    To help with the amp draw of the cable itself spooling on.

    My electric hoist came with a gal anti rotating wire rope which I have never had any problems spooling onto the drum evenly side to side. The anti rotation rope has a seperate core wound the opposite way to stop it spinning making it stiffer, and in your case using more amps.

    Since I added several pulleys the anti rotation wasn't needed, I wanted a wire rope that was had more flexibility, so I went with 4mm 7x19 stainless steel wire rope

    Not sure what size etc your rope is, but I just looked it up and 2.4 would do fine for 100kg single line as it's breaking strength is 440kg.
    If you are doubling it up with pulleys you can even go smaller and still be perfectly safe.
    Using Tapatalk

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    Not sure what size etc your rope is, but I just looked it up and 2.4 would do fine for 100kg single line as it's breaking strength is 440kg.
    If you are doubling it up with pulleys you can even go smaller and still be perfectly safe.
    Hi Dave, I bought some 4mm cable from bunnings, 10 bucks, but i might have to go to a smaller dia cable again as i might not have enough room on the spool by the time i put the cable blade thingo in there... i didn't like the chinko winch and i have been making another winch for it, if you are interested it is here https://metalworkforums.com/f303/t20...45#post1981945

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