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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW
    Posts
    202

    Default Waldown drill wiring check

    Hi there

    I have a Waldown drill that I purchased ex TAFE machine. It is three phase and has a emergency stop button as well as a safety switch. The lead was cut so requires a three phase plug to be wired. Before a plug is attached I thought I should open up the stop button and the safety switch box and have a quick look. I feel there is something not right here and so thought I would ask here. I am unable to get a sparky out at the moment but once I am able that will be what I do. In the meantime I’d like to understand what I think should be done.

    The three phases coming into the box are the old colour scheme wires - red, white, blue plus earth. Going out of the safety box to the drill are the new colour wires brown, black, grey. There is a wire loop going to the emergency stop - 2 wires one red, one off-white and it is simple switch that breaks this circuit.

    The stop switch is connected to L1 at the point where L1 from the incoming power is connected to the safety switch. The confusion I have is that the off-white return wire from the switch is not connected to anything - it is simply a bare wire in the safety box. On first thought it looks like it should go back into the same L1 circuit but this does not make sense to me as I don’t see how it can break this circuit given the incoming power is also connected here. Has someone just wired around the stop switch?

    pic of the Safety switch
    7C5888F7-4826-46F6-AE90-E84624616613.jpeg

    Here is the top of the safety switch showing red L1 coming into the box, then the red smaller gauge wire going to the safety switch and the unconnected off-white wire returning from the stop switch.
    FD40003E-DB4D-4AF6-9D12-F1DBB8392407.jpeg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Flinders Ranges
    Posts
    1,536

    Default

    It’s bypassed.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

    Default

    Given that a 3 phase motor can continue on on 2 phases, that E-stop really needs to be wired into a contactor that will kill all three phases at once.
    None of the E-stops I've seen will allow you to fit 3 switches into one of those boxes (actuated by a single button) but that would be other way.

    Michael

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Could it have been single phase originally?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by russ57 View Post
    Could it have been single phase originally?
    I guess anything is possible with second hand gear but given it was a TAFE machine and the motor looks to be all original matching the colour etc I doubt it. I will remove the E stop and get the DOL starter wired to a plug and go with this setup.<br>

    For those interested it is a DOL starter Schneider brand model LE1M35N712. I will use this as the start stop function rather than the drill's own direct switch.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    The motor 3 phases need to be wired to bottom L1L2L3 terminals of the contactor relay. The 3 incoming phases needs to be wired into the top L1L2L3 terminals. The so called emegencey stop is wired into the votrol circuit of the relay. It will not be a true emergency stop but it will work. Is the contactor 240v or 415v coil.
    Else you need a 3ph emergency stop which can be done but will require a bigger box.

    Dont forget to add a 3 ph isolating switch.

    Best left to a sparky who has knowledge of electro mechanical plant...ie not a general house wiring sparky.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    The motor 3 phases need to be wired to bottom L1L2L3 terminals of the contactor relay. The 3 incoming phases needs to be wired into the top L1L2L3 terminals. The so called emergency stop is wired into the votrol circuit of the relay. It will not be a true emergency stop but it will work. Is the contactor 240v or 415v coil.
    Else you need a 3ph emergency stop which can be done but will require a bigger box.

    Don't forget to add a 3 ph isolating switch.

    Best left to a sparky who has knowledge of electro mechanical plant...ie not a general house wiring sparky.

    Thanks very much

    The wiring is connected already as you indicate for the 3 phases coming in and going out of the contactor. Yes getting a spray who is familiar with this kind of situation is why the job hasn't been done yet. The wiring is connected but I wanted to take a look first and what I saw ( the wire not connected coming back from the emergency stop) made me believe the switch is not right. My first thought was that I have never had an e-stop before on a drill press and not sure that I need one as long as the normal stop switch is located in just as easy location to use.

    The 3phase power point has an isolation switch which will be within a meter of the machine and then the 3 phase circuit breaker is approx 3 m away so I had not thought I would need a further isolation?

    The original setup of this drill is a power cord from the 3 phase power point to the switch on the side of the drill. It is just the fact that there has been a DOL starter and an emergency stop fitted after market between the power point and the original drill press switch, that I thought it as a reasonable approach to keep them. If the emergency stop is removed and I just have the DOL (which includes thermal overload protection) between the power point and the original drill press switch I think this is still better than the 3 phase power lead running directly to the drill press switch. Ay reason to think this is not the case?

    This is the DOL starter- LE1M35N712 - TeSys LE - enclosed DOL starter - 3.7...5.5 A - 415 V AC coil | Schneider Electric Australia

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danger Mouse View Post
    Thanks very much

    The wiring is connected already as you indicate for the 3 phases coming in and going out of the contactor. Yes getting a spray who is familiar with this kind of situation is why the job hasn't been done yet. The wiring is connected but I wanted to take a look first and what I saw ( the wire not connected coming back from the emergency stop) made me believe the switch is not right. My first thought was that I have never had an e-stop before on a drill press and not sure that I need one as long as the normal stop switch is located in just as easy location to use.

    The 3phase power point has an isolation switch which will be within a meter of the machine and then the 3 phase circuit breaker is approx 3 m away so I had not thought I would need a further isolation?

    The original setup of this drill is a power cord from the 3 phase power point to the switch on the side of the drill. It is just the fact that there has been a DOL starter and an emergency stop fitted after market between the power point and the original drill press switch, that I thought it as a reasonable approach to keep them. If the emergency stop is removed and I just have the DOL (which includes thermal overload protection) between the power point and the original drill press switch I think this is still better than the 3 phase power lead running directly to the drill press switch. Ay reason to think this is not the case?

    This is the DOL starter- LE1M35N712 - TeSys LE - enclosed DOL starter - 3.7...5.5 A - 415 V AC coil | Schneider Electric Australia
    The emergency stop does not have to be 3ph. The main reason for a EM is that you have this BIG stop button that you can wildly hit ie not having to be very accurate when reaching for the stop or go button like one would need to do on the DOL starter.
    As long as the EM is wired in series with coil circuit it will work. Only thing it wont do is stop the motor if contactor/relay sticks in closed position. Now this would be rare and even more rare if it ocured at same time as of having the real need to hit the EM stop.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Country West Oz
    Age
    77
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Any Electrician should be able to sort that for you it is not at all complicated.
    Regards
    Bradford

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