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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Default I hate 15amp sockets.

    I think today I have destroyed two, fifteen amp sockets and a ten amp one.

    Doing some heavy fabrication with the plasma and mig welder.

    The compressor has ruined a 10 amp socket as it will not turn off now.

    The plasma even with a 15 amp plug keeps clicking out the 20 amp breaker, and running the mig welder off my generator (12kva), today it has destroyed the two fifteen amp sockets. (I will have to put a 32 amp plug on the mig I think.

    Yes I really hate the fifteen amp socket. 32 should be the standard up from 10.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    The plasma even with a 15 amp plug keeps clicking out the 20 amp breaker
    Now wait a minute, the plasma keeps tripping a 20amp breaker and its the 15amp sockets fault?
    Just how many amps should you be able to draw through a 15amp socket?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Melbourne
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    1,075

    Default

    At least 20 apparently

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Default

    They were all factory fitted with 15 amp plugs.

    The issue is the 15 amp socket has become ubiquitous so quality manufacturers of equipment make stuff that has the ability to draw far more amps then the plug they fit to them can handle. I believe this is so they can sell the machines as it would put off people to see something with a 32 amp plug fitted as the matching socket are rare to find, but becoming more common.

    At least I have now fixed the generator receptacles. A good old safety feature was there problem. They have actually put contacts in the socket so the internal pins will not be live until something is installed. The active contact was a bit cooked
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    The plasma even with a 15 amp plug keeps clicking out the 20 amp breaker, and running the mig welder off my generator (12kva), today it has destroyed the two fifteen amp sockets. (I will have to put a 32 amp plug on the mig I think.
    You could be getting excessive voltage drop, which in turn would cause the current to increase beyond the spec for the machine.

    I put a power analyser on my new 50A plasma cutter - at 50A it peaked at 5,000W, or about 21A assuming a nominal 235V (should check this, as the voltage would certainly be dropping under this kind of load).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
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    586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    They were all factory fitted with 15 amp plugs.

    The issue is the 15 amp socket has become ubiquitous so quality manufacturers of equipment make stuff that has the ability to draw far more amps then the plug they fit to them can handle. I believe this is so they can sell the machines as it would put off people to see something with a 32 amp plug fitted as the matching socket are rare to find, but becoming more common.
    I know stuff about welders, and this is particularly true in that space.
    Manufacturers have the ability to get the equipment they sell certified to meet Australian electrical compliance codes, independent of the Australian standard.
    The formula they use to determine effective current takes duty cycle into account.
    So machines that have an under-specced plug can and do either:
    1) get throttled in their duty cycle to sneak in under the effective current needed for their desired (ie under-specced) plug type,
    2) Choose not to comply and fit whatever they want
    3) comply to the standards, and fit a big cumbersome plug

    Manufactures choosing option 1 are really selling half a machine... not really suitable for many heavy industrial applications.
    Most larger manufacturers will be risk averse for option 2.
    And if they want to be on the front foot option 3 is the ticket...



    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I put a power analyser on my new 50A plasma cutter - at 50A it peaked at 5,000W, or about 21A assuming a nominal 235V (should check this, as the voltage would certainly be dropping under this kind of load).
    Input current does that- it spikes up then settles down. I think the electrical gurus call it inrush current. The real point of interest is how long does the input current stay at 50A? My guess is probably not long at all.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Hi Guys,

    I don't know about the high power, 15 amp+ plugs and sockets that are used down under, but one problem that does occur here quite often is surface corrosion on the pins and contacts inside the socket of our 13 amp fused plugs, particularly since they have mandated partially insulated pins on the plugs. The surface corrosion would normally be removed when plugging in or removing a plug, but people leave things plugged in for months at a time so the corrosion layer builds up and produces a poor contact, which then gets hot and damages both plug and socket.

    I've seen the plug on TV sets that only consume a 100 watts or so, so hot that you cannot handle them, simply because once plugged in they never get removed.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    NSW
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    586

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    I think you are forgetting that our weather down under is not cold and miserable 4 days out of 5 ;-)

    Our patented mix of drought and red dust ensures that most GPO's never have the chance of corroding.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Bendigo
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    60
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    I think the electrical gurus call it inrush current.
    Inrush is one part of the equation and there are different curves for circuit breakers, while the breaker may be 20a they require a specified over current amount and for a certain amount of time. Different curves allow more or less over current for more or less time.

    I doubt drawing 20a through a 15a socket in good condition will cause any issues, it is more likely other conditions at play most likely resistance in the connections that have caused the problem.
    Do the pins on the plug still have a nice bright brass or silver plated finish ? Or are they dark and tarnished looking like they are heat affected ?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    Ideally, any circuit powering welders, plasma cutters or larger motors should be fitted with a D curve breaker so as to handle the surge currents that these loads produce. Single phase D curve breakers seem harder to come by than three phase (which need them less in my experience), but they are out there. Sadly, many sparkies look at you with a dumb look if you mention D curve breakers. When we set up a new shed at a previous workplace where we ran a mix of single and three phase gear, I implored the boss to put D curve breakers on the single phase lines. The idiotic sparkie (tried to kill us all by not earthing the shed and leaving a 415V bus bar exposed in a sub board) fitted D curve three phase breakers and C curve single phase, so the single phase Mig and Plasma constantly tripped the 20A breakers.

  11. #11
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Default

    I really like the 6, 15A sockets on 20A D breakers I have in my sled.
    Several of my bigger machines also have V/I meters on then or I measure the currents involved so I have a good idea of what is going on.
    I even run my 4HP dust collector via a VFD on slow start through one - max current is always <10A so no inrush currents.
    Of course VFDs not really an option with welders

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Everything is fixed now.

    Even the welder is running beautifully off the generator. A 32 to 15 amp adapter was the answer.

    Now I need an electrician to install a 32 amp socket in the shed.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  13. #13
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    Apr 2018
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Everything is fixed now.

    Even the welder is running beautifully off the generator. A 32 to 15 amp adapter was the answer.

    Now I need an electrician to install a 32 amp socket in the shed.
    What do you mean by a 32 to 15 amp adapter.

  14. #14
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    32 amp male to 15 amp female. Runs off the generator as it has a 32 amp outlet.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Everything is fixed now.


    Now I need an electrician to install a 32 amp socket in the shed.
    I'm sure you can figure it out.

    That lazy electrician has nearly finished wiring my shed. Lights done. Some power circuits in. Hoist going up and down.

    No planer or lathe going yet

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