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  1. #16
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    Q

    Depends entirely upon the quality of both the VFD and the LED tubes, but in general that statement is a long way from reality. In a domestic environment you may not notice it so much because there is unlikely to be equipment that is susceptible to RFI present.
    Sure.

    My crude RF spectrum analysis experience is based on reception interference of my old shed AM, battery powered. Just running one of my HY VFDs anywhere in the shed ws enough to start interfering with AM reception whereas running 20 LED tubes didn't seem to do anything obvious to my ears. Sometimes I have 5 or 6 VFDs just switched on ie not all running motors and this also screwed with the AM reception. To hear radio interference cause by the LEDs I had to place the radio close to the LEDs. Of course other frequencies may be different.

    In my electronics workshop I have 4, 2700 lumen, Osram LEDs above my work bench. I just tested these using my AM radio and had to hold the radio really close (even closer than the LED tubes) to hear an effect on reception. These LEDs are a lot newer than the tubes so they could just have better RFI suppression

    On another practical point of operations the RFI from my VFDs seems to mess with some Arduino operations, whereas the LEDs don't. This also applies in the kitchen with the coffee maker pump on a VFD with Arduino monitoring.

    Now that I have almost as many Powtran VFDs in the shed as HYs I should repeat the AM radio reception experiment and see what happens.

    BTW AM reception problem cured by a using a digital radio

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    AM reception problem cured by a using a digital radio


    String a long external antenna away from the shed

  3. #18
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    String a long external antenna away from the shed
    I tried a number of variations of that but it didn't help much or at all.

    If I used an external antenna and wrapped the radio in earthed Al foil that helped, BUT then the Al foil blocked the sound from getting out.

    A separate tuner wrapped in earthed foil connected to my stereo amp improved things a bit, but the Digital Radio beat everything by a country km.

  4. #19
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    Yeah power equipment like VFD’s tends to splatter lower in the spectrum, I commonly find the supply noise from LED lighting in the 130-280MHz area although I have seen it around 520MHz and in one case as high as 980MHz (they were nasty, the switch rate in the DC supply was well in excess of what was required to get the job done and if the case lid wasn’t on, the bottom half of the case became live with induced high voltage DC which I found the hard way).

  5. #20
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Now that I have almost as many Powtran VFDs in the shed as HYs I should repeat the AM radio reception experiment and see what happens.
    I had a go at this with the radio this morning.
    My very crude measurement system was to set the AM radio onto a talkback station and with the VFD/motor running move the radio towards the VFD until I could no longer understand what was being said on the radio.

    First thing I observed is the greater the VFD power rating, the greater the RFI.

    Then the 1.5HP VFDs I tested showed the Powtrans appear to be better than the HYs by a distance factor of ~50%

    THE RFI interference coming from an LED tube is not the same across the tube length. The middle of my tubes have very little RFI while the ends (presumably where the drivers are) have the most. Referring to the ends of the tube, I could get the same amount of RFI, but at a ~5 times shorter distance, as a running 1.5HP HY VFD.

    FWIW A twin tube LED had slightly less AM RFI on the AM band as my laptop.

    While looking around on the web for the sorts of RFI I should expect from LED tubes I stumbled across this.
    Signals most likely to suffer as a result of radiated noise include FM radio (broadcast band 87.5 to 108.0 MHz) and DAB radio (broadcast band 174 to 230 MHz).
    I then tested LED tube RFI using the radio FM band and there appeared to be less RFI than the AM band.
    The LED's don't seem to bother my DAB radio at all.

    If I had the enthusiasm (sadly lacking ATM) I would borrow an RFI meter from my former workplace but I think I have enough information on this for now.
    This is of course by no means any sort of definitive investigation, for start I'm only looking at one frequency band in the AM and FM bands.

  6. #21
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    My view on anything RF is that its up there with electrickery, miracles, ghosts, women, and everything else I have to live or work with but don't need or want to understand.
    Don't get me started on wifi networks.....
    My workshop FM radio ranges from crap to unusable. I've tried DAB radios in the shed with pretty much the same result, so its looking like either internet radio, or I'll throw an antenna on the roof and use a car radio as they always seem to get pretty decent reception.

    Back to the original lighting question though - I decided to give the UFO style high bay lights a try so ordered a couple from evilbay. Will report back with how they go.

    Steve

  7. #22
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    One thing that has not been discussed is the amount of illumination required in workshops.

    Recommended illumination tables are available; eg https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/l...oms-d_708.html

    My experience in setting up a new workshop area back in 2011 was that I ended up needing a lot more than I first thought. The new workshop area was 6 x 4m and initially I set up 5 double LED tubes which nominally produced ~500 lux (lumens/m^2) but quickly found out that this was not enough even in daytime and eventually ended up doubling that plus added a number of spots above benches and machinery etc.

    Then last year I borrowed a lux meter from where I used to work and found out that in practice even with all 20 LED tubes on (unless I used the spots) there was no place in my shed that was actually above about 600 lux. This is almost certainly because I have too much crap stored overhead which blocks light. I can't really have the LEDs underneath the crap or i'd be hitting my head on the LEDs.

    The spots change this significantly with 1370 lux above my MW lathe, ~2400 lux at the mill and DP vices and 17000 lux under my table saw spot.

  8. #23
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    Reading this thread on holiday made me think I didn’t have enough light in my garage. Specifically above my benches but also above my lathe and mill.

    I did some Bunnings searches whilst away and set on some Philips LED lights. Mainly because they were cheap at $25 each.

    When I got to Bunnings today I didn’t realise but they are small. Probably an inch squared. Everything else was really expensive so I thought I’d give them a go anyway.

    I got them home and didn’t realise they can be surface mounted or hung from wires. Well that was unexpected. Why not hang them from the ceiling! That way I can get them closer to the work and hopefully get more light.

    I didn’t have any flexible wire but used some very thin gauge stuff as a proof of concept. Might change them out later if it bugs me.

    4 in total in my double garage, supplementing the 2 double fluros already in there (but not great placement for any work on the outsides).

    The end result is amazing. It’s now incredible bright in there and really makes working at each of the stations a joy. Time will tell if it’s a worthy upgrade but it certainly seems to fit the bill.

    Total cost about $140 including wire, conduit and various other bits.






  9. #24
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    My el-cheapo 150W led high bay lights arrived on Friday. Don’t be fooled by the thick looking heat sink fins - Just pressed steel with rounded edges to make them look thicker!

    They put out a decent amount of light. I’ve mounted one in the apex of my workshop approx 3m above the ground and it covers the 6m width of the shed with general light. Would be a good light intensity for a workbench directly underneath.
    I don’t think I’d like to mount one lower than 3m as you’d cop the light in your eyes and it’s pretty intense.

    No idea how they’ll go in the longer term, but for $30 each I’m not expecting too much.





    Steve


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #25
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    Default Re shed lighting

    Has anyone used ordinary 10 watt down lights in the workshop?

  11. #26
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    Not in the workshop but my experience with them in our kitchen is you’d need a lot of them.
    We’ve got 3 downlights over a bench approx 4m long. I reckon a 1.2m twin tube LED “fluoro” would do the same job.

    Steve

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    Not in the workshop but my experience with them in our kitchen is you’d need a lot of them.
    We’ve got 3 downlights over a bench approx 4m long. I reckon a 1.2m twin tube LED “fluoro” would do the same job.

    Steve
    I’ve been replacing the old down lights in my house with the LED ones. The lighting pattern is much improved. I think they have a 60 degree arc whereas the old ones must be closer to 15-20. Makes a huge difference but you’d still need a load of them. I’d stick with tubes in the garage, plus they’re $60 odd each.

  13. #28
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    I had 2 single fluros until last year they just were arpia shadow over work areas even if I wasn't in the road, dark corners of workshop.
    P1120096.jpgP1120095.jpg
    So had 4x1100x300 6000k LED panels installed switches set up so I can have 2 or 4 on with the 2 newer ones place at right angles as in a broken square formation with all 4 on almost need

    20190916_174502.jpg

  14. #29
    Join Date
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    Default TRIPROOF20/40W12-TRI in my shed

    TRIPROOF20/40W12-TRI
    www.haneco.com.au
    Email: [email protected]Last update
    April 18, 2018 11:10 AM
    C0/180 110.2deg
    C90/270 129.5deg
    UNIT: cd
    PHOTO
    PHOTOMETRIC DIAGRAM
    DIMENSIONS
    QUICK FACTS
    Input power
    Power Factor
    IP Rating
    IK Rating
    Dimming
    CCT
    Lumen output 20W
    40W
    CRI
    Beam Angle
    Fascia Colour
    Installation
    Warranty
    Supply Voltage
    Supply Frequency
    Cable
    Body
    Diffuser
    Driver
    Weight
    Ambient Temp
    Avg. lifetime
    Subject to change without notice, errors and omission excepted. Always make sure to use the most recent release.
    20W / 40W
    ≥0.9
    65
    08
    Optional
    4000K / 5000K / 6500K
    2227lm / 2254lm / 1965lm
    4085lm / 4411lm / 4049lm
    80
    120°
    White
    Surface Mount
    5 years
    240-265V
    50-60Hz
    NO
    PC
    PC
    Integral
    G.W : 2.6kgs
    N.W : 2.0kgs
    0°C - 65°C
    ≥50,000 hrs@

    put these in my shed today,turns the place into daytime ,excellent lighting and good pricing

  15. #30
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    Jul 2007
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    Default led ights

    took some photos tonight of my new lights,cheese and chalk with my old double flouros, total cost $210, money well spent
    Attached Images Attached Images

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