Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default A 2.2Kw VFD for $100

    Hi all,

    After sharing a VFD between two milling machines for too long it was time to pull the trigger on a dedicated VFD for my Pacific mill. It's been a while since I bought a VFD. All my previous VFD purchases have been Huanyang brands and I have only ever had good experiences with them. They tend to get a bad wrap on some forums (in fact some US forums have banned the discussion of these) but they do what I want them to do. Anyway, to my surprise there are now VFD's on ebay that are even cheaper than the Huanyang. One such brand is Isacon, in fact they may all be this brand but it's difficult to know. There have been discussions on this forum and elsewhere regarding Isacon VFD's with mixed reviews.

    One thing to notice is that these cheaper VFd's seem to have less flexibility compared to HY equivalent. In fact they only have about half the number of parameters available for programming. This may not be a massive contraint if your requirements are rather straight forward such as would be the case on a lathe, mill or SG etc. Quality of internal components such as capacitors may also be compromised but who would know?

    One concern I did have regarding these cheaper VFD's is that there seems to be no way of adjusting the carrier frequency. They seem to do everything else I need. The reason this concerns me is that when I was setting up my very first HY VFD, it took me some mucking around with this parameter before I managed to get the motor to run quietly without a noticable whine. SO I figured it's probably a nice parameter to be able to control.

    I then came across this ebay offering.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-2KW-3H...72.m2749.l2649

    It's definately not a huanyang as the electrical schematic is drawn slightly different eventhough the pinouts seem to be the same. However, it does claim to have a selectable carrier frequency. So, for around the $100 delivered I bought one.

    Hopefully I should have it at least roughed in, programmed and tested in a couple of weeks so I can report on my findings. Long term reliability will remain to be seen.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Armidale NSW
    Age
    52
    Posts
    915

    Default

    I use one of them (well it looks exactly the same) for my vehicle hoist.
    Does the job, but doesn't get a lot of use. It was installed about 8-12 months ago.

    If I remember correctly the "overload current" setting (or something like that) was set for a smaller capacity VFD and would cause the VFD to cut out when the load hit that point. I increased the setting to what I thought it should have been for this VFD and haven't had an issue since.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    Definitely an attractive price for an application that doesn't need all the bells and whistles.
    Following with interest.

    Steve

  4. #4
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Whatever you buy make sure you get to see the manual before hand to make sure you can read and understand it. Over in the woodies forum we've seen a couple of members caught out with 2 page manuals written in chinglese.

    I've upgraded 3 of my machines (MW lathe, WW lathe and DP) for HY's to Powtrans and installed 2 powtrans on my small mill. For $20-$30 more than the superbudget end VFDs you get a fully featured industrial strength VFD with a decent manual and excellent factory support. To Fund these I've been selling off the HY's for half price so it has not been an expensive exercise.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    I don't think they allow vector control though, i'd probably pay the little bit extra it costs. Though if you plan to run it at a fixed frequency or don't plan to run very low speeds it probably won't matter too much.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Thanks for the info guys.

    It definately won't have vector control but my experience has been that I have not needed it... yet. My first VFD project was my geared head mill. I replaced the 2 HP single phase motor with a 3HP 3 phase. Since the motor was a bit over the top power wise (for the rigidity of the machine) I have not noticed any loss of power at lower frequency. In fact even at 5Hz, which I use as a jog function, I still cannot stall the motor with my hand in the lower gear selection.

    The pacific mill has infinately variable speed control with the cone pulley CV setup and it works nicely so I intend to run the mill at 50Hz. No need to vary the frequency for day to day use unless I want to run it as some weird or wonderful speed, even so, it won't be a huge variation from the 50Hz either way.

    All I really need is the usual ramp up speed, coasting stop and jog.

    If I'm seriously not happy with it then my backup plan is to send it onto my shaper and just purchase a "genuine" HY for the mill.

    WRT the manual, if it's the same PD setup as the Isacon then it's not a biggie as I have google searched and found a manual of similar "quality" as the HY manual.

    Will soon find out. I'm quite curious what $100 and half the price of a HY gets you.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    industrial strength VFD with a decent manual and excellent factory support.
    I could not get customer support from powtran, they ignored my email requests for help.
    What email address do you use Bob?

    Simon I bought 3 x 2.2kw Isacon VFD's for 86 bucks each delivered from ebay, they seem to work well for me.
    I like the minimalist manual supplied with them also, the powtran manual does my head in as it is alien tech to me.
    I use one for the 1 1/2 hp 6 pole motor on my little mill and one for a 2,2kw spindle motor that goes to 400hz
    the other is waiting to be used elsewhere but i have used it on occasions.

    cheers, shed

  8. #8
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    I could not get customer support from powtran, they ignored my email requests for help.
    What email address do you use Bob?
    [email protected] mark it for attention to Nicole.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    [email protected] mark it for attention to Nicole.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    The VFD arrived the other day. It's about 1/2 the size of a comparable wattage Huanyang VFD so it's compact!

    The instructions are no better and no worse than the instructions you get with a huanyang. For the life of me I could not find how to set the carrier frequency so I messaged the seller. After he contacted his supplier he informed me that the "carrier frequency is pre-set for optimised performance at 6Hz".

    OK. so at least he gave me an answer. I suggested he change his wording in the ebay add to reflect this. I am yet to wire this in but I suspect that for my intended intermittent use it will be fine.

    No sure when I will wire it up but I will report back here when I do.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Nambour Queensland
    Age
    63
    Posts
    86

    Default

    How did you go with the eBay vfd, I'm thinking of getting my first and really can't go past the cost, just curios about what your doing. Brett.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Hi there,

    To be honest I have not had a chance to play with it yet.

    I'm sorry it's taking so long but time is not on my side atm.

    I may see if I can rough it in and set up some parameters just to test the thing and report back.

    Maybe on the weekend.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default VFD Update

    Hi all,

    Updating from my last post, I have recently had a chance to hardwire, configure and play with this Isacon (Cheap) VFD.

    In short, it works OK. It runs the 3 HP spindle motor on my bridgeport clone no problems (albeit under no load) It ramps up and ramps down exactly how you program it just fine. I even accidently ran it without the motor connected, and it survived, although I wouldn't try that too often!

    The configuration to my mill is (as far as the VFD is concerned) pretty straight forward, nothing fancy. A soft start (ramp up time of a few seconds) forward only (no reverse) and a coasting stop (no ramp down) and constant 50 Hz with no fancy variable speed (I let the CV mechanical speed control on the mill do that). Oh and JOG but more on that later.

    First up, the instructions albeit in English are very basic and light on. They were not intuitive and if you bought one of these units as your very first VFD instalment then it would be a little confusing. Even a proper Huan Yang inverter can be a bit of a challenge if it's your first but these are just that little more confusing. The description for each of the parameters is not as in-depth.

    The other thing I am yet to sort out is the JOG function. Personally I like a JOG function on a mill and lathe especially one run by a VFD because you can program the JOG to run at say 5 Hz and use it to check tool clearences etc. with the cutter or workpiece running very slow prior to pushing the RUN button.

    I have made allowances in my wiring for such a facility. One of the connections inside the VFD is labelled "Multispeed D1/JOG which I have assumed will fit the bill. Be buggered if I can program the VFD to reccognise this and work. According to the cicuit diagram, connecting the internal command connections GND to D1/JOG should run the VFD at a pre-programmed speed.

    Anyway that's so far the only issue I have with it. I'm running out of things to check/test but I'm still optimistic that it's a fault of mine and not the VFD.

    The VFD setup on my mill will run two motors, the spindle motor and the coolant pump. I may choose to run the spindle pump without coolant or with and I may even choose to run the coolant pump without the spindle. To do this I have kept the original contactors. There are two 4 pole and a larger 5 pole contractor.

    By using the 4th pole to create a feedback loop you can make them a latching relay. Breaking the circuit to the relay via a NC mom off switch turns them off.

    In order to switch the VFD on and off, I have connected two smaller relays. They are switched on when the contactor are switched and they run the signal RUN and STOP commands to the VFD. These two smaller relays are connected in parallel, which means that as long as at least one motor is still running, the VFD will still be providing 3 phase power to the supply. This means that I can turn on either the spindle motor or coolant pump on and or off in any sequence and the VFD will switch on with the first motor and only switch off when the last motor is turned off, regardless of the sequence.

    The only down side is that I cannot have a rampdown or decelerating stop on the VFD because once you turn off the last motor, they are isolated from the VFD. A decelerating stop would mean the VFD would be operating with no motor connected during that time.

    Also, if you get into the nitty griity of the setup you will see that when you turn off the last motor, the small but finite amount of reaction time between the contactor and relay means that strictly speaking the VFD is disconnected from the motor for probably a millisecond before being turned off. I have been running a similar setup on my surface grinder and so far after about 5 years it's still going well, never had an error or fault code. Whether it affects the logevity of the VFD is yet to be determined I guess.

    Pic 1. The wiring setup. I have used the original wiring board and connectors. It will mount back inside the rear of the machine.

    Pic 2. The control panel that screws at the front of the machine. Those buttons are all MOM push buttons with both NO and NC connectors. The middle switch (power feed) will be used (and re-labeled) for the JOG function if I can get it running.

    Hope some people find this of interest. I will provide a further update when appropriate.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Done some more work with this.

    Turns out I couldn't find a way to run this at one fixed frequency (50hz) AND set a separate JOG frequency. Of say 5 Hz.

    While I don't really need infinitely variable speed control via the VFD, I decided to try something a little different.

    I set up a rotary switch and three multi turn trim pots to allow me three different fixed speeds. The three fixed speeds are adjustable via these trim pots housed in the switch box at the front of the machine.

    The VFD manual states that a POT value of between 1 - 5K is needed. Since my circuit has 3 in parallel I opted for 10K POTS so the VFD sees a POT value of around 3K3.

    Never taken this approach before so was keen to test it before committing to the circuit permanently.

    Result, is that it works ok. I can even change speeds while the motor is running. I wasn't sure if the VFD would have a hissy fit given the momentary break in the circuit changing from one trim POT to the next but seems fine.

    Only issue is changing from a faster frequency to a lower ie 75 Hz to 50 Hz or 50 Hz to 5 Hz. It throws up an error code.

    I think it may be from an over voltage generated from the motor being temporarily overspeed once a lower frequency is selected.

    I will play with the deceleration times and see if i can program that issue away.

    Speed 1 will be around 5 Hz. JOG function
    Speed 2 50Hz
    Speed 3 75hz.

    In use, 99% will use 50hz and I will adjust the speed via the CV in the head and read off the speed from the mechanical speed display disc.

    This mill is supposed to have a max speed of around 4200 rpm, however I think the CV belt is a little short, restricting my max speed to around 3700. That's probably plenty for me but just in case I need some extra speed for aluminium work and/or small cutters, I can select 75 Hz and then just multiply the displayed speed by 1.5.

    I may rig up a digital speed readout one day but can't see a need really.

    Really just a matter of screwing the circuit panel inside the back of the machine and attaching the wires now.

    Getting closer to the end...

    Pics show the frequency selection switch on front panel. The single mom switch above will be the JOG button. It's the same as the RUN switch on the left but it won't latch the relay or the VFD RUN command.

    I'll Dymo a JOG label for that middle switch. Not because I'll forget but just because I like things labelled! A 2.2Kw VFD for 0

    Last pic is my frequency selection circuit, for anyone interested..

    Simon



    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  15. #15
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Does your VFD have multispeed capability, usually any of DI1 thru DI6 or DI8 can be programmed to any specific frequency.

    On my dust collector I have mine set to use one of 3 speeds via a single rotary switch - 40-50-60Hz. The speed changes are handles at accelerations that can be programmed to be slow enough so that no errors result.
    Then a single standard frequency control pot works whichever multispeed is selected.

    I did a WIP in the woodies forum on this fit.
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f271/...13#post2093304

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •