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  1. #1
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default Another Angle grinder incident

    https://www.9news.com.au/national/20...ts-man-in-face

    Don't know the full story yet but it reminds me that safety glasses are not enough and Full Face PPE is a must for these things.

  2. #2
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    Default Fire season is upon us.

    Cutting some small pieces of 3mm steel carefully clamped to the edge of the bench.
    Smelt smoke then saw some.
    Thought Iíd cooked the 125 Bosch then realised my cotton work shirt was on fire.

    The common safety clothing is all flammable nowadays.
    I was bloody stupid as I had a blacksmiths leather apron nearby.
    Ive melted a few reversible safety coloured vests in the past.
    As a youth set my frayed overall cuffs alight arc welding. (Hand me downs from my Dad).
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  3. #3
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    Iím a carpenter, not a steel worker. But I use grinders a lot, maybe 5 times a day, 5 days a week. Over my life thatís 37,500 times without a single incident , I use glasses , ear protection and never have a guard fitted. ...I have tried, and tried , but I just canít seem to have an accident, Ready to give up , please somebody tell me how to hurt myself with these nasty machines ?

  4. #4
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEMORSE View Post
    Iím a carpenter, not a steel worker. But I use grinders a lot, maybe 5 times a day, 5 days a week. Over my life thatís 37,500 times without a single incident , I use glasses , ear protection and never have a guard fitted. ...I have tried, and tried , but I just canít seem to have an accident, Ready to give up , please somebody tell me how to hurt myself with these nasty machines ?
    In the 1990's there was a detailed survey of DIYers and Pros regarding injuries using tools. One of the most interesting findings was that the two groups had similar accident rates (numbers of accidents per person). There are several reasons for this, one obvious one being the hours of exposure with DIYS have much lower exposure than pros, and another was the degree of increased over confidence by pros. In other words you will never know when something might bite you, even when you have gone years without incident.

    The anecdote that I like to tell is a family friend who was a cabinet maker for nearly 50 years and never had a significant accident in that time. A few days before his retirement he was cleaning up the workshop at the end of the day and dreaming about what he was going to do when he retired etc. He walked past a table saw and saw a couple of pieces of wood on teh sw that were not long enough to save and too long for the firewood box so he fired up the saw and cut up the pieces. He turned the saw off and saw a couple of small pieces near the blade and went to pick them up and ended up just touching the still spinning bLADE AND dockED off a couple of fingers. So he spent his last work days in hospital where they reconnected the fingers but they were so badly damaged and never recovered the full use of that hand.

  5. #5
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    Bob, my guess as to why pros and diy people have a similar accident rate is that useing a tool mostly correctly and safely 37500 times I might come unstuck on a rare occasion. A diy bloke might have a similar disaster rate because he not so experienced and likely to come undone more often .., when thin grinding discs were invented I reckon more minor cuts arose because it sinks in skin deeper than the old thick cutting disc .... also some super cheap inferior discs are only rated a certain rpm. And now cordless grinders are so much more of a performance tool than previous. They spinning bloody fast. Tools I mostly respect are dropsaws circular saws table saws buzzers electric planers and my steel lathe. I treat these as respectfully as I would a loaded or unloaded rifle ...

  6. #6
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEMORSE View Post
    Bob, my guess as to why pros and diy people have a similar accident rate is that useing a tool mostly correctly and safely 37500 times I might come unstuck on a rare occasion. A diy bloke might have a similar disaster rate because he not so experienced and likely to come undone more often ..,
    That's what I meant by "hours of exposure".

    when thin grinding discs were invented I reckon more minor cuts arose because it sinks in skin deeper than the old thick cutting disc .... also some super cheap inferior discs are only rated a certain rpm. And now cordless grinders are so much more of a performance tool than previous. They spinning bloody fast. Tools I mostly respect are dropsaws circular saws table saws buzzers electric planers and my steel lathe. I treat these as respectfully as I would a loaded or unloaded rifle ...
    Interesting that of the tools you mention, table saws have the lowest incident rate per hour of use while buzzers/planers the highest - for both pros and DIYers.

    I mainly use a thin kerf cutting wheels in a mini home made table saw attached to a 1HP 3P variable speed grinder arrangement. This thing uses a ribbed belt/pulley from a running machine on the grinder so it can do 12000 rpm but I can also slow it right down to say 3000 rpm so then I am OK to use it as shown. This arrangement is very different to a drop saw because the only place the metal can go is down and that is prevented by the table. I have gone through many hundreds of thin wheels like this. Most were on a small (8") Wood Work Table saw which I though would become redundant when I got a plasma cutter so I gave the 8" table saw to my son. However using thin kerf wheels in a table saw arrangement have many features than a plasma doesn't so I made myself this thing and it's turned out to be one of the best gizmos I have ever made.

    The sucker is connected via a metal dust/spark catcher (20L steel drum) to my shed dust extraction . Most of the swarf/sparks go down into a baked bean can under the wheel but if the metal hits the back of the wheel this will generate a shower of sparks but you can see how effective the setup is at catching them
    bestofthebest.jpg

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by clear out View Post
    Cutting some small pieces of 3mm steel carefully clamped to the edge of the bench.
    Smelt smoke then saw some.
    Thought Iíd cooked the 125 Bosch then realised my cotton work shirt was on fire.

    The common safety clothing is all flammable nowadays.
    I was bloody stupid as I had a blacksmiths leather apron nearby.
    Ive melted a few reversible safety coloured vests in the past.
    As a youth set my frayed overall cuffs alight arc welding. (Hand me downs from my Dad).
    H.
    I met a bloke at a TAFE CNC class on Monday who had 3rd degree burns to 75% of his body, he was welding a job at work when a fire started at waist height and quickly consumed his work uniform, induced coma, skin grafts, heavy medication and long recovery... I also met his workmate who suffered burns to his hands trying to put the poor bugger out. some of his uniform had to be surgically removed because it had melted into his skin.

  8. #8
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    Bob ... perhaps I mention table saws amongst the list of power tools I most respect because Iím guilty of sticking a little bit of my body into one one day .... shame on me

  9. #9
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEMORSE View Post
    Bob ... perhaps I mention table saws amongst the list of power tools I most respect because Iím guilty of sticking a little bit of my body into one one day .... shame on me
    The potentially most dangerous machines I own are a couple of big (122cc 8.5HP and 112cc 7.5HP) chainsaws with 42 and 60" bars that I use on my chainsaw mills. However, I still have more respect for my 3HP table saw than I do for these chainsaws. So far no incidents with the table saw and the only incident with the chainsaw mills was when a 3/4" BSP brass plumbing cap fitting, vibrated its way off the top of the auxiliary oiler tank and landed on the moving chain at full throttle and teh cap ricocheted to a spot on my polycarbonate full base shield right between my eyes and it felt like I had been hit by a baseball bat - WHACK the shield took teh impact and spread the load so it was sore but not too bad. These days I use a black poly plastic cap

    I've also had a chain come off on a 71cc saw which was fortunately caught by the chains saw chain catcher but not before the chain swung around and fair whacked me between the legs producing interesting purple and blue patches on my goolie bag.

  10. #10
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    I often wondered what would happen if I chain broke on a chainsaw while useing it. Sounds scary

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEMORSE View Post
    I often wondered what would happen if I chain broke on a chainsaw while useing it. Sounds scary
    That's why they have chain catchers on them, which shouldn't be removed. In theory most of the energy has dissipated by the time it reaches you, and while it may break the skin and cause some nasty cuts or grazes. And if you're wearing chaps and gloves, you shouldn't get much more than bruising (providing it doesn't come up around your arm if it's unprotected).

    I will admit to spending a lot of time running chainsaws without chaps, but when I got the 84cc 064 I have now that runs a 28 or 36" bar, I went straight out and grabbed a pair of Stihl chaps. The great irony is they're more likely to save me running Dads little Husky 236XP, as the thing cuts like a lightsaber with the narrow chain and a muffler mod, and is so light you tend to get sucked in to swinging it around a bit willy nilly limbing stuff. Have to constantly remind myself it's just as capable of removing a body part as the 064 is, and I should apply the same slow and deliberate choice of movements I do the 064.

    It's normally going to be the things you AREN'T scared of that injure you IMO. I worked with a guy in construction who managed to shatter his wrist with an 18V cordless drill. Trying to run a fairly large holesaw through some aluminium panel in low gear, it grabbed and wrenched his arm. That not being warning enough, he changed hands, it the next time it grabbed it shattered his wrist (can't remember whether it slammed his arm into the wall as a part of this, but I think that was a part of it as the hole needed to be right up against the concrete wall in a tight spot).

    On that topic, bugger the LTI policies the big builders have - they exerted pressure on the (large) company we worked for, who then put pressure on him (sick days at that company are big, fat black marks against you for the next round of (regular) redundancies). He was sent back to work (from the builders chosen doctor, of course) that afternoon with a splint on, and spent the next couple of weeks wandering around site high as a kite on Codeine for the pain. For some strange reason neither the builder or our company seemed to be bothered by the fact he absolutely would have failed a drug test had he been selected (they knew full well he was on a massive dose). He was supposed to be on light duties in the office, but was still responsible for running the area he had been, and no-one was assigned to the area to replace him and help out the two guys working in his area who had the usual ridiculously close deadline. The office work tended only to take him a couple of hours, so he got sick of wandering around site looking busy for hours on end, and was doing bits and pieces to help out the guys working in his area. Suffice to say, over 6 months later his wrist showed absolutely no signs of healing and his doctor was talking about surgery to fix it, all so the big builder didn't have an LTI injury recorded against their name when they tendered for the next bunch of multimillion dollar projects.

    Didn't save him either, still got made redundant a couple of months later. I'm sure the company had him down as an unproductive worker due to his injury and having to take part days off for doctors appointments, that's just how they work. Everybody knows it, including the unions. Point is, if anyone finds themself in that situation, don't screw yourself just so a multibillion dollar builder can sweep it under the rug and make their paperwork look better for their next tender - he shouldn't have been at work for at LEAST 2 weeks, and had both a massive build up of sick days he'd accrued over years of not taking any, and income protection from one of the union supported groups that would have kicked in. Had he had the appropriate rest and recovery time, quite likely he would have been good to go as normal within a couple of months.

    That, and beware the tools you're complacent about.

  12. #12
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    Iím a huge believer in sobriety and being completely drug free .... I will tolerate a labourer being a bit hung over on a Saturday morning if heís only digging holes By hand because they drink on Friday night. Itís just what they do. But during the week everybody must be completely sharp and 100 per Cent functional ....otherwise . Go home now . Donít ever return ..no warnings .. I have no room in my life for them

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEMORSE View Post
    Iím a huge believer in sobriety and being completely drug free .... I will tolerate a labourer being a bit hung over on a Saturday morning if heís only digging holes By hand because they drink on Friday night. Itís just what they do. But during the week everybody must be completely sharp and 100 per Cent functional ....otherwise . Go home now . Donít ever return ..no warnings .. I have no room in my life for them
    In theory that's what the drug testing on site is for (although in nearly 6 years I never got tested once, so seems like if you were into that sort of thing you'd have a pretty good chance of getting away with it). In this case however, he was prescribed codeine for the pain by a doctor. He would have failed the drug test, and been sent home without pay despite having a prescription, because for obvious reasons you're not supposed to be on site under the influence. Somehow that point was completely ignored by 'management' when brought up, and the insistence was that he keep coming in. Can't have an LTI on the books you see, what would the shareholders think... I'd almost guarantee if they did their usual 'random selection' for a batch of testing, his name wouldn't have made it into the hat.

    One thing I learned on the big sites, is that 'safety' is all about how the paperwork looks. The reality bears no resemblance to it, and 'management' are normally fully aware of it, and directly setup the workers to have no option but to ignore it - but at all times maintain plausible deniability. The normal methodology tends to be insist on something being done in a ridiculously short timeframe, but never actually supply the facilities or logistical co-operation to do it by the book. They rely on peoples fear of losing their job if they can't deliver whats asked, and usually the worker just goes and does it for exactly that reason. It's only the ones who are completely over the job anyway who dig in, and they're just a number who gets replaced.

    I'm sure there may be big mobs who aren't like that, but I could certainly mention a few names that work EXACTLY that way, and unfortunately the rest will eventually end up the same, or loose out due to being unable to compete on price. I've watched a couple of companies slowly transform over the years. The smaller subbies tend to be much more on their workers side, and dig in. If they get too big though...

    Enough ranting from me on the topic. Just one of the many things I hate about that industry at that level.

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    I detest big work sites Iím too grumpy and only get on with a small group of the best type of people . I go spastic if anyone tries to smoke near me. Best I just do my own thing and stay out of trouble

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