Thread: Electricity charges

Originally Posted by shedhappens

Chris that is cheeeep, what energy supplier is that?

Sumo John. I’m skeptical about how long they will stay that low.

We got no choice, only one supplier, we have been warned of a price increase on July the 1st.

If I was going to stay here I would put solar on the roof.
My mate around the corner keeps showing me his power bill, $0.00

Hi Guys,

My Electricity charges have doubled and are due to double again when the price cap is altered, upwards of course ! The biggest increase is in the daily standing charge which is currently £0.52 pence a day and will increase again in September.

Various companies are pushing solar panels ! But even at £15K its still not cost effective, you can buy a lot of electricity for that amount of money even at double today’s prices.

We have an "Economy 7" metering system where you get seven hours overnight at a reduced rate ! It used to be about a quarter of the normal day cost but over time it has gone up and now stands at just over three quarters of the day rate. Originally intended for overnight charging of storage radiators for winter heating.

I guess that they will increase the charges for that until there is no advantage in having it !

Originally Posted by BaronJ

Hi Guys,

My Electricity charges have doubled and are due to double again when the price cap is altered, upwards of course ! The biggest increase is in the daily standing charge which is currently £0.52 pence a day and will increase again in September.

Various companies are pushing solar panels ! But even at £15K its still not cost effective, you can buy a lot of electricity for that amount of money even at double today’s prices.

Here we can get budget 6kW system for about £2Kk! so installation is a no brainer.

Up until this year our solar usage patterns have been that we import and export about the same amount of power

In $ terms we import an average of $125 of power a month and also export about the same amount but only get 1/4 of the $ back on the buyback so we're still paying about $100 plus the standard domestic connection fee.

This year has been cloudier than usual so our import/ export ratio is substantially up by 50%

Before we had solar we were averaging $250 month plus connection fee so its rapidly paying itself off .
In summer the excess is nearly all from running ACs - house is old and leaky - need to fix that.
In winter use of home appliances during the daylight hours is limited plu there's a bunch of cumulative small stuff.
We use a lot more lighting, computers and 3D printer often running 24/7, espresso coffee machine goes on at 4:30 for my 5am cuppa and stays on most of the day, We use slow cookers and electric oven more often.

We have gas for hot water but don't use any power or gas for heating. Just put on another sweatshirt PLUS if you run computers, 3D printers, slow cookers and coffee machines all day that heat has eventually to go somewhere

Hi Bob, Guys,

The the solar installation prices that the companies want has, like most other things, doubled since covid !
Whilst the price of panels has gone down a little, it is the installation and component costs that have soared. The last panel that I bought only cost me a little over £100, today that panel the same 300W one is below £80.

Edited to add that we are all Electric, no gas at all here !

Originally Posted by BaronJ

Various companies are pushing solar panels

Just watching UK TV shows I am surprised solar panels work in the UK, as I never seem to see the sun even in summer you have nothing like the sunshine we get here. Your summer sun looks like our winter sun.

Originally Posted by .RC.

Just watching UK TV shows I am surprised solar panels work in the UK, as I never seem to see the sun even in summer you have nothing like the sunshine we get here. Your summer sun looks like our winter sun.

yeah...worse than the "land of the long white cloud"....and thats always cloud covered...well most days anyways

C’mon, Blenheim gets about 2800 annual sun hours - more than Sydney (2600) and lots more than Melbourne (2400)
UK annual average - 1400

Steve

Here's an interesting misconception.

Latitude also has a major impact on solar system production. Systems installed at higher latitudes even at optimum angles will yield lower production numbers throughout the year due to the tilt of the earth as it spins on its axis.

Assuming the solar panels are tilted to the optimum angle (same angle as the latitude) one might still assume that electrical energy production will be reduced at higher latitudes due to the suns rays having to pass through more atmosphere. However, the other factor that determines energy conversion efficiency is the temperature of the panels which is determined largely by the air temperature. It tuns out that the reduction in panel temperature at higher latitudes has a greater effect than the change in latitude at least up to about 30º, This helps solar panels to produce a half decent output on a cold sunny winters day.

I don't think it's a misconception at all Bob. I have 6600W of panels on a 22.5 degree pitch roof. A few days go my peak power output was 3600W (54% of max). This was a cold, crystal clear day- optimum conditions for solar panels. I reckon the reduced output was purely a function of sun angle relative to panel angle.

Originally Posted by BobL

It tuns out that the reduction in panel temperature at higher latitudes has a greater effect than the change in latitude at least up to about 30º, This helps solar panels to produce a half decent output on a cold sunny winters day.

Yorkshire, when John lives, is 54 degrees north. I doubt he would ever recoup his installation costs.
But in Tennant Creek, it's a no-brainer.

Hi Guys,

I can confirm that my solar panel on the camper van roof looses about 3 to 5% of its output voltage when it gets hot in full sun. Because of the voltage difference between the panel output and the battery that its supplying, I don't notice any reduction in capacity.

But I do agree that its unlikely at today’s prices I would ever recover the costs involved !

As I mentioned earlier I/we are all electric ! I was talking to a neighbour who lives in an identical bungalow but does have gas for cooking and heating. Their energy cost is roughly 50% more than mine. I suspect mainly due to them having two standing charges one for each metered system. There are some other causes of the usage difference as well. Mainly lighting, we don't have any incandescent bulbs anywhere !

Originally Posted by jack620

But in Tennant Creek, it's a no-brainer.

The only thing stops me is I want to get out of the place ASAP.

Originally Posted by jack620

I don't think it's a misconception at all Bob. I have 6600W of panels on a 22.5 degree pitch roof. A few days go my peak power output was 3600W (54% of max). This was a cold, crystal clear day- optimum conditions for solar panels. I reckon the reduced output was purely a function of sun angle relative to panel angle.

Sure, latitude dominates the output but given all things are equal and optimised, panels at the equator produces on average 3% less than a panel at 30º latitude (with the angle of the panels set at 30º) purely because the average temp at 30º latitude is substantially less than at the equator. There's been loads of research done on this - I'll see if I can dig up the paper. At greater than 30º the effect starts to be dominated by latitude because average temps dont drop that much between 30 and say 60º latitude. Another way to look at this is at the same latitude, increase the panel altitude and the output goes up - yes thinner atmosphere, but also much cooler temperatures.

FWIW We have a 6 kW worth of panels mostly on a 14º pitched section of our roof and we still get peak power of about 4.1kW/hr on a cold clear winters day.
Melbourne is 5º higher in latitude than Perth but your roof is pitched 8.5º higher so you should be getting more than 3.6kW.

I’m a bit confused. In an earlier post you said the statement Latitude also has a major impact on solar system production was a misconception. But now you’re saying latitude is the dominant factor?

Also, I think the 3% temperature penalty for higher temps at the equator is dwarfed by the losses due to angle of incidence at higher latitudes.

Here’s a couple of PV production graphs for summer and winter at my place. I have a 6kW inverter, hence the peak of 5.99kW in summer. How much peak output do you think I should be producing in winter?

[QUOTE=jack620;1999948]I’m a bit confused. In an earlier post you said the statement Latitude also has a major impact on solar system production was a misconception. But now you’re saying latitude is the dominant factor?[QUOTE] Agree, but not for latitudes <= 30º

Also, I think the 3% temperature penalty for higher temps at the equator is dwarfed by the losses due to angle of incidence at higher latitudes.

Depends what you mean by 'higher latitudes? On average at 30º of latitude a panel placed at 30º produces more power than a panel placed at 0º at the equator. This is because the average temperature is hotter at the equator than at 30º. Above 30 the latitude eventually dominates the power output - there's a tangent function in there somewhere.

Here’s a couple of PV production graphs for summer and winter at my place. I have a 6kW inverter, hence the peak of 5.99kW in summer. How much peak output do you think I should be producing in winter?

I have no idea, I was just quoting the max output for ours on a sunny cold winters day.