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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    North Brisbane. Qld. Australia
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    70
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    1,511

    Default Electricity charges

    I recently had a new meter installed and it looks like a smart meter, although I have never seen one before. My new tariff structure is Demand. Not checked thoroughly yet, but from what I have seen so far, is that may mean my bills may go up quite a bit. Anyone in a similar situation and can advise on what options if any are available and how to avoid big bills?

    Hopefully I have added an attachment showing old and new details of charges.
    Nev.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    4,779

    Default

    You can install solar.

    Over summer I go into surplus and it gets used during the darker months.

    We have a 6Kw system. We use roughly 8 - 10Kwh per day throughout the year.

    For cooling We use an evap cooler and for heating We have a wood heater. The wood for our heating I get from designated firewood collection areas in state forests. I usually try to collect the wood prior to the summer so it gets stored and dries to less than 20% moisture content over the summer period.

    We don't have a clothes dryer or other power hungry items that are not needed.

    In short, the only way to save on bills is to use less electrons!

    Finally, shop around.

    Simon

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Brisbane. Qld. Australia
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    70
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    1,511

    Default

    I rent.
    Nev.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,436

    Default

    Hi Nev, Guys,

    It seems that everything energy wise is taking a hike ! My Electricity charges doubled last month and I been advised that they will double again on the 1st April. Petrol and Diesel fuel prices are now at the highest they have ever been, £2.00 a Ltr for Diesel and £1.90 for Petrol. The Chancellor supposedly knocked 5p off the fuel tax, but I've yet to see any sign that the prices have gone down, indeed I believe that’s just more profit for the seller.

    It seems that businesses are taking every opportunity to make up what they have lost during the Covid pandemic.
    Even my favourite Australian Shiraz, same brand, same year, has had its priced increased by 25% !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    £2.00 a Ltr for Diesel
    Crikey. About GBP1.20 here.
    Chris

  6. #6
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    You can install solar.

    Over summer I go into surplus and it gets used during the darker months.

    We have a 6Kw system. We use roughly 8 - 10Kwh per day throughout the year.
    We generated an average of 26 kWh/day and consumed an average of 27kWh/day in 2021
    Due to timing issues we export ~1/2 of what we generate during the day and import it all back in the evenings and overnights in summer - we could probably use a battery.

    Consumption is so high because we have 5 (yes 5!) split system reverse cycle ACs, including one for me in the shed.
    teh AC upstairs is only used if we have guests as that's where the guest room is.
    Usually 2 or 3 of the ACs are on at the same time during the day.
    SWMBO does her craft stuff between a large layout table, computer and scan-and-cut in one room and the TV and sewing machinesin another and she likes to run both the ACs cold.
    From Nov to about April the bedroom AC is often on 24/7.
    We have two fireplaces but don t use any heating in winter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    473

    Default

    I've just been reading up on demand tariffs.
    If you can monitor and control your peak usage, it looks like you could potentially save a little. Eg, making sure you only have one high power appliance like a stove, oven, kettle aircon on at a time, over the demand period.
    Conversely, even a single 30 minute period of high usage could blow out the charge for the month.


    Otherwise, id be looking for a new retailer.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alexandra Vic
    Age
    69
    Posts
    654

    Default

    Nev, I haven't looked up the web page they refer you to, but the following is my take on it.

    1. You save about 5c/KwH before GST for general consumption between 9.01pm and 3.59 each day. This is basically base load and surplus solar power sourced.

    2. You pay an additional 8c/KwH before GST for general consumption between 4.00pm and 9.00pm each day. This is the period when people return home after their day, and increase demand significantly (switch on A/C to cool house, cook tea or buy out requiring others to cook for them, fire up home computers, TV's, video games etc), meaning that the wholesaler has to buy additional electricity on the spot market. I haven't seen recent wholesale supply prices, but those that I saw some years ago had some peak demand supply costs to wholesalers orders of magnitude greater than their base load costs. This is because these generators have significant investment in equipment that is on standby 95% of the time, and they need to recover their investment, cover their operating costs, and make a profit for shareholders from extremely limited operating times with the machinery. Their input costs for fuel etc are similarly higher because they need to have immense supply capacity installed, but generally are using only a miniscule portion of installed capacity until they are bought on line.

    3. Your controlled load tariff stays the same.

    4. You daily supply fee increase about 12c per day before GST. This reflects that individual consumer consumption is reducing as people install solar, but overall network costs are increasing with inflation etc.

    You may have the option to adjust your usage patterns to a degree to save by shifting some high consumption tasks to the cheaper part of the day and optimise your savings from the lower cost during late evenings, mornings and early afternoons, by using delayed starts on dishwashers, washing machines and other similar units.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Brisbane. Qld. Australia
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    70
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    1,511

    Default

    Thanks. Washing machine and dryer are always used during the day and mostly on a weekend so that's a good thing for me. Nights are a bit of a worry in winter as I feel the cold and like my heater a lot, so that is not good. Only air con in one bedroom, so that is usually only on after 4.00 pm to cool the room for a short period of time before I go to bed. May be on occasionally of a weekend during day if I need a nap. I guess I will just have to wait and see what happens and try to adjust if bills increase.
    Nev.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    We generated an average of 26 kWh/day and consumed an average of 27kWh/day in 2021
    Due to timing issues we export ~1/2 of what we generate during the day and import it all back in the evenings and overnights in summer - we could probably use a battery.

    C
    phew...here I was thinking we were the only power hungry household in in Australia...thanks Bob as I am up there with you...but I have an excuse..me the wife and 2 adult kids all live here for last couple years...thought I had got rid of one but she came home from the Cayman Islands a couple months ago so now have 3 who dont know what light switches are for

  11. #11
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    phew...here I was thinking we were the only power hungry household in in Australia...thanks Bob as I am up there with you...but I have an excuse..me the wife and 2 adult kids all live here for last couple years...thought I had got rid of one but she came home from the Cayman Islands a couple months ago so now have 3 who don't know what light switches are for
    I thought we were power hogs until I saw one of my sisters power use summaries and that was up around 45kWh/day for 2020. It's just her and her son. The issue was a 400 sqm house which was almost all open plan so basically cooling and heating the whole place with AC. She not financially challenged but has a green bent so she installed an 18kW PV system. Of course anything above 5kW she exported for free! She's since moved to a very large new apartment block which has a 192kW system on the roof.

    Part of our problem is that half the house is >100 year old and is pretty leaky (ie wooden floor boards with gaps) the other half is 25 years old and much better sealed

    Another problem ais we have two dogs that go in and out on a regular basis, both to do their own business AND to check out what everyone else is doing in the neighbourhood. If a neighbour's kid farts the dogs will want to check that out. Postie comes - off they go, Suspect looking character walks past the front - out they go. We don't mind this as we think it lets people know our dogs are on watch.

    To facilitate this we leave the door between the main part of house and the laundry open and have a full height heavy curtin across the door that the dogs can push past. The door from the laundry to the outside is left open but has a security screen with a doggie door. This works fine provided the easterly doesnt blow too hard.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Not quite.
    If your peak demand was say 10kw, for any day, between 3 and 9pm, your demand charge would be 8.3c x 10, or 83c per day for the month (or quarter). Even if you used nothing every other day.
    But it seems like it would still be a good deal.

    You can always switch.

    Quote Originally Posted by malb View Post
    Nev, I haven't looked
    up the web page they refer you to, but the following is my take on it.

    1. You save about 5c/KwH before GST for general consumption between 9.01pm and 3.59 each day. This is basically base load and surplus solar power sourced.

    2. You pay an additional 8c/KwH before GST for general consumption between 4.00pm and 9.00pm each day. This is the period when people return home after their day, and increase demand significantly (switch on A/C to cool house, cook tea or buy out requiring others to cook for them, fire up home computers, TV's, video games etc), meaning that the wholesaler has to buy additional electricity on the spot market. I haven't seen recent wholesale supply prices, but those that I saw some years ago had some peak demand supply costs to wholesalers orders of magnitude greater than their base load costs. This is because these generators have significant investment in equipment that is on standby 95% of the time, and they need to recover their investment, cover their operating costs, and make a profit for shareholders from extremely limited operating times with the machinery. Their input costs for fuel etc are similarly higher because they need to have immense supply capacity installed, but generally are using only a miniscule portion of installed capacity until they are bought on line.

    3. Your controlled load tariff stays the same.

    4. You daily supply fee increase about 12c per day before GST. This reflects that individual consumer consumption is reducing as people install solar, but overall network costs are increasing with inflation etc.

    You may have the option to adjust your usage patterns to a degree to save by shifting some high consumption tasks to the cheaper part of the day and optimise your savings from the lower cost during late evenings, mornings and early afternoons, by using delayed starts on dishwashers, washing machines and other similar units.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Brisbane. Qld. Australia
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,511

    Default

    Here's a screenshot on current and new charges. Not happy.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Nev.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,228

    Default

    Cents per kWh looks pretty good to me. But that daily supply charge is a bit steep! I just signed a deal for 88c a day supply. 24c/kWh flat rate. 10.5c/kWh solar feed-in.
    Chris

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Cents per kWh looks pretty good to me. But that daily supply charge is a bit steep! I just signed a deal for 88c a day supply. 24c/kWh flat rate. 10.5c/kWh solar feed-in.
    Chris that is cheeeep, what energy supplier is that?

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