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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    jilliby nsw
    Age
    68
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    108

    Default


    My goodness the TCM is giving you the run around. Suppose its good to know the gearbox is basically ok apart from worn clutch packs. There appears to be a bit of TCM stuff still around for the older machines. When I rebuilt mine I bought most of the parts over the counter at a forklift parts place in Sydney. I guess they would have similar in melbourne.

    "but never a fully floating side gear! This statement seems to indicate something sinister, maybe a collapsed bearing. I find this interesting as mine had a very growly diff when I bought it. It had milky oil in it so I assumed this was the cause. After several flushes all I got was sludge coming out, no metal bits thankfully. Filled it with the thickest gear oil I could find, found some 'Wynns" product to shut up noisy diffs and its been satisfactory for several years now. Still has a bit of a whine though but hasn't got any worse. Its repair is on my 'one day' list.
    Thanks for the gearbox pics, at least I know whats insde it now, I can't wait to see what you find in the diff centre
    . Hope all goes well, a forklift would be real handy at the moment to lift the mast off, they are heavy suckers believe me. Good luck Steve, cheers Ian


  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,780

    Default Any forklift mechanics here?

    Hi Kryn,
    I knew it wasn't driving when I bought it. Was supposedly driving fine before it was parked up for a couple of years and the price was right so I figured it was worth a crack. Possibly I've got yellow snow instead of lemon sorbet hey!

    If its just the diff then its probably not too big a deal to fix as long as I can get hold of the parts and not have to donate a kidney to pay for them. Sounds like the Chinese cloned these machines and parts are still available so fingers crossed that's all it is and I'm not up for a complete transmission strip and rebuild.

    Got the mast off this afternoon. Used the old yard crane to lift it off. Wasn't as difficult as I expected.





    Naked!!!




    Was about to dig through the 50mm of crud that the brake lines disappear into when we copped a thunderstorm with some decent rain, so that was the end of that!

    Steve

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
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    1,780

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    After being given the tip that these machines were cloned by the Chinese manufacturers, I found this manual online:
    https://www.forklift.ee/wp-content/u...c_5320_469.pdf

    The line drawings of the transmission and diff are very "pre CAD" and seem to be a bit fuzzy, indicating they possibly have a source other than the current manufacturer.
    The transmission drawings look pretty much identical to what I physically have on mine. Even if its not exactly the same it at least gives me a description of how things might work and what the construction inside is likely to be.

    Looking at this section view of the diff and reduction gear, the side gear I can see displaced inside fits with what is drawn.
    Its runs directly in the hemisphere, and for it to drop out of its bore then I assume there must be an issue with the planetary gears.

    Diff section view.JPG

    I guess all will be revealed when I get the housing off. Must remember to drain the oil before I split the casing!!

    Steve

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
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    So, looks like I have indeed been sold a bucket of yellow snow instead of lemon sorbet!!





    Now just have to find a new diff...

    Steve

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    jilliby nsw
    Age
    68
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Oh dear Steve, not good news! It appears from the drawing that the bevel gears rotate in a bronze bush and ,are partially supported by the axles , but are the planetry gears rotating on 2 short pins that are fitted into the cage casting? Cant really follow the sectioned drawing . I thought it would have been a single pin?? So has the pin casting broken and allowed the planetry gears fall out of position and into the bottom of the diff housing mashing up the bevel gears during their travel?. Seems diff centre is quite a simple basic setup with the ball bearings supporting the ring gear. Oneday I will pull my diff apart and re-race it. It is probably those ball races that are making all the noise. There shouldnt be too much of an issue getting another centre after all there must be thousands of those lift trucks around that have been pensioned off. Once again I wish you well on your diff hunt and hopefully this will solve all your movement issues.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
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    The cross pin should be one piece, but this one has definitely sheared and is now in 2 pieces. There are a couple of flats machined in each side of the pin, just a bit in from each end. Likely for lubrication reasons. The shear point is at the stress raiser where the flat ends sharply.

    The side gears seem to just run steel on steel, but possibly some bronze thrusts behind them. Haven't looked too hard yet.

    By the damage on the end of the broken bits and fact that there is one carrier hole in good condition and the other is completely flogged, I'd say th bits of pin stayed in position for a while (not sure exactly how) but eventually one bit of the pin came out cleanly (the good hole in the carrier) and left the other one doing all the work until it eventually failed (the flogged hole). Its strange damage - could even have cracked the inner edge of the hole away due to side load on the pin - but I'll have a better look once its all cleaned up.

    Steve

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
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    Default Any forklift mechanics here?

    New gears and pin arrived, and I picked up some silicon bronze wire for the MIG to build up the cross pin holes and pinion gear faces in the case.



    Hard to get a good photo but you can see how the bore has worn tapered as the pin has gradually worked its out after breaking.



    First time Iíve played with silicon bronze in the MiG and the result wasnít pretty, but did the job of filling the wear. I thought about doing it with the TIG but couldnít see how I was going to get down into the bore. With the MIG I could use a long wire stick out to get some reach.





    Boring it was a real PITA due to lack of Z height and being too lazy to turn the table around on the carriage so I could drop it lower. The setup was less than ideal but worked ok.
    In hindsight it would have been better to bore the holes over size to start with so there was a consistent amount of bronze around the majority of the hole.
    I didnít do that and ran into issues when boring it as there were hard spots where the bronze mixed with the steel of the casting. Had to finish it off with the die grinder.
    Did the inside where the gear sits with an air belt sander.



    Finally all back together after a bit of fitting and fettling.



    The new press worked great for installing the bearings



    Steve

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,978

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    Hi Steve,

    At least you have now got the job sorted, nice one.

    I must admit that I would have just bored out the bad hole and turned a bronze sleeve and pressed it in ! More than one way to skin a rabbit.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
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    Agreed - bushing it would have been an easier option if it was just the hole.
    From the general condition and playing with other diffs in the past I knew that there would be a reasonable amount of wear in the case where the pinion gears bear, so I'd be needing something to account for that. Since the back of those gears is spherical its not so easy to make up bronze washers etc, so a bit of bronze build up was the easiest option there. Plus I wanted to have a play with the bronze as an option for other build-up jobs in the future
    As it turned out I ended up with about 1mm of bronze behind the pinions, and there was just a nice amount of backlash. Would definitely have been sloppy without it.

    As you say - many ways to skin the rabbit, and what I've done here is agricultural at best. I know its only going to get minimal light use in my ownership so I'm OK with that.

    Steve

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South of Adelaide
    Posts
    901

    Default

    Best practice when repairing bores is to bore 1-2mm oversize then weld up, this makes it much nicer to finish machine.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
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    Well, after all that faffing around it finally moved under its own power tonight.
    I initially tried before refitting the mast, but it just spun the wheels and quickly dug into the gravel. As soon as the mast was back on and it had some weight on the drive wheels it just climbed out of the holes with no fuss.
    Transmission is fine, inching valve works nicely and it steers and drives great.

    Still a bunch of little things to tidy up before its fully functional, but awesome that its finally mobile

    Steve

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    8,802

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    Good to hear.
    How did you pick up the holes center for boring after welding?(or even before for that matter given how flogged it was)


    Any tips for silicon bronze?
    I have a roll but as yet haven't had a need to try it.
    Other than switching to Argon I have on idea.

  13. #43
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    Nov 2017
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    Geelong, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Good to hear.
    How did you pick up the holes center for boring after welding?(or even before for that matter given how flogged it was)


    Any tips for silicon bronze?
    I have a roll but as yet haven't had a need to try it.
    Other than switching to Argon I have on idea.
    Axially the bores have to be centered from the faces that the side gears run on. I measured those faces to the ends where the bearings sit and both ends were the same, so meant I could just center between the ends of the bearing stubs.
    The other way (rotationally??) there was a 6mm oil hole on each side of the side gear bore, and I surmised that the ones on the same side of the flange as the cross pin would likely have been drilled in the same setup as the cross pin. I did a couple of rough checks and that seemed to be correct so I used the center of those for the rotational position (I put a close fitting pin in a collet and just tweaked the table position and part position manually until it slid in nicely, tightened the vice, re-checked and took that as my X zero position and then moved back to the Y zero that I'd already set midway between the bearing stub ends.

    I did think about how I'd approach it if it needed more accuracy rotationally, and the most practical I could come up with was mounting it in a dividing head, center on the dividing head axis and axial midpoint then indicating on the inner (spherical) face where the pinion gears run while rotating and moving the indicator in the Y direction to find the low point.
    Since the centerline of the hole should coincide with the lowest point of the spherical face - at that position the centerline of the bores should be vertical. Obviously that approach needs at least one of the spherical faces to be in reasonable condition to start with. If both of them are stuffed then you're going to be building up and recutting that face anyway, so as long as the cross pin centerline intersects the case axis then it really doesn't matter if you're a smidgeon out.
    Ideally you'd bore both holes in one go, but if you couldn't then at least with the dividing head you could accurately rotate 180deg to do the second hole.

    I've probably babbled too much, but hopefully that sort of makes sense.

    I'd actually like to know how those spherical faces for the pinion gears would have been machined originally.

    Re silicon bronze tips - I hopped on Youtube for 30mins or so and watched a few different videos, then played around on some steel offcuts until I could run a bead and fillet that looked half reasonable. Its weird compared to steel/aluminium MIG as its a brazing process ie you're not melting the base metal, just getting it hot enough for the bronze to wet into it.
    I did give the case some preheat to help get a bit of heat into it as I noticed when I was playing around with the offcuts that it was easier to get the bronze to flow after I'd run a couple of beads and the workpiece had warmed up.
    Possibly that's more to do with lack of experience and not having the correct settings - so may not be required if you know what you're doing!
    I figured a bit of preheat is a good thing on a casting anyway...

    Steve

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    420

    Default Yes there is

    A forklift mechanic here. Name is "Steve", goes under the handle OxxandBert.

    Well done. Great recovery.. Hope the rest of it hangs together for you.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
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    Thanks for the kind words Russ - but if youíd seen me struggling to work out how to fit the tynes today you might reconsider!!
    Almost had to phone a friend for advice but resorted to YouTube instead

    Yes, fingers crossed the rest of it holds together. Itís past itís prime but seems pretty solid so with a bit of TLC should have a few years left in it yet. Iím probably in the same boat myself!!

    Steve

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