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  1. #1
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    Sep 2012
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    Thumbs up Elvington Air Museum !

    Hi Guys,

    It was a beautiful day here in North Yorkshire, UK, yesterday ! So my wife and I decided to visit the Air Museum near York. It is an old WW2 RAF bomber command base. The French also had squadrons of pilots here.

    One of the very famous aircraft that is still flying is housed here, the "Lancaster Bomber", fully refurbished in its original livery. This aircraft carried the enormous "Grand Slam" and "Tall Boy" bombs apart from the famous "Bouncing Bomb" so successfully used in the "Dam Busters" raid.

    One of the things that struck me was the tiny "Browning 303" machine guns carried in the turrets ! Tiny compared to the 20 mm cannon fitted to the later "Spitfire" and "Hurricane" fighters. Its no wonder that they had a hard time defending against the German 109's that already had 20 and 30 mm cannon.

    IMG_0018.jpg IMG_0020.jpg

    Halifax Bomber ! I've spoken to a guy at Elvington. He has confirmed that this aircraft is not a Lancaster Bomber.
    Thanks to the eagle eyed among you.

    IMG_0017.JPG IMG_0016.jpg

    Tall Boy bomb.

    IMG_0026.jpg IMG_0027.JPG

    German 109 fighter.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Perth, Western Australia
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    Default

    No pics or is it just me.

    Tony

  3. #3
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    Sep 2012
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bts View Post
    No pics or is it just me.

    Tony
    Hi Tony,

    I deleted them because I had forgotten to rotate them ! Their back now Sorry.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Thanks BaronJ


    I don`t think that's a Lancaster. Lanc`s had Rolls Royce Merlins not the radials on this one. Its name escapes me at the moment but it was designed by the same guy that designed the bouncing bomb.

    Love the ME 109.

    Tony

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Toorloo Arm, VIC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bts View Post
    Thanks BaronJ


    I don`t think that's a Lancaster. Lanc`s had Rolls Royce Merlins not the radials on this one. Its name escapes me at the moment but it was designed by the same guy that designed the bouncing bomb.

    Love the ME 109.

    Tony
    Looks like a Handley Page Halifax?

    But I don't think Barnes Wallis was involved, I think he was on the Vickers Wellington? Could well be wrong.

    *EDIT*

    For what it's worth, there is currently one airworthy Lanc in the UK, based out of RAF Coningsby. From memory known as "City of Leeds". There is also "Just Jane", who has been used for taxi rides for some years at Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre, and which has been undergoing restoration works in the off season, with a ten year plan to getting her airworthy again. Some interesting videos on YouTube from that process, gives you a great look at how they were put together, and how involved restoring one is. Guy called Neville Wheeldon posts a lot of videos of the process.

    Wikipedia tells me there are also two on static display in the UK, one in London and one at Duxford, although of course that is not necessarily an extensive list.

    The only other airworthy Lanc in the world at this time is based in Canada, powered with the Packard version of the Merlins IIRC.

  6. #6
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    Feb 2014
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    Werribee, Melbourne
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    Default

    Tony, there was one version of the Lancaster that had Bristol Hercules radial engines - I would think this one is a pretty rare bird.

    I saw a picture on the 'net some time ago and went digging as I thought exactly the same thing.

    Ray

  7. #7
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    Default

    Some Lanc's had radials as the Merlin production and supply was always tight with Spits, Hurricanes, Lancs and Mosquitos in high demand. I am not aware that any radial Lancs were used for the Dambusters or Tallboy raids, but wouldn't rule out the possibility. The plane you are thinking about (radial engines, designed by the man behind the bouncing bomb) was the Wellington bomber, a twin engine machine designed by Barnes Wallace. A fairly tough high survivablity aircraft at the start of the war because it was framed in a geodesic arrangement of rolled ali members and fabric covered. Unless the Germans hit an engine, oil tank etc or crew, their bullets or shells basically went straight through the aircraft and out again, generally causing minimum damage to the airframe. Quite often could be patched and ready to go within an hour or so, by riveting in a replacement section of ali and doping on a cloth patch to cover the holes.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Definately a Halifax...radial engines, squarish shaped vertical fins, closed rear to the cockpit.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Some very interesting information there. The picture of the aircraft that I posted is labelled as a "Lancaster" but until it was pointed out, I hadn't noticed the radial engines. There is a partially disassembled RR Merlin engine near the aircraft.

    There are a number of foreign aircraft at the Museum including a number of reproductions of historic ones.

    Some more pictures

    IMG_0029.jpg

    As you can see from this picture, it was a brilliant day.

    IMG_0021.jpg IMG_0022.jpg

    A Vampire jet.

    IMG_0028.jpg

    I don't think anyone could mistake a VTOL Harrier.

    IMG_0023.jpg IMG_0024.jpg IMG_0019.jpg

    Some of the other aircraft hanging from the roof.

    IMG_0025.jpg

    A RR Derwent jet engine.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Some very interesting information there. The picture of the aircraft that I posted is labelled as a "Lancaster" but until it was pointed out, I hadn't noticed the radial engines. There is a partially disassembled RR Merlin engine near the aircraft.
    Rather disappointing if the museum can't get that right....

    In addition to the things mahgnia mentioned, the front blister on that one is different compared to the Lancs double blister (don't know if the Lancs ever had anything different, although later Halifaxes seem to have gained a similar arrangement), and the landing gear is completely different (much more solid looking on the Halifax)...

    I, of course, have a soft spot for the Lanc as my grandfather lied about his age in order to go and do two tours as a navigator on them.

    Still nice to see the Halifax though, we tend to forget that they were still in operation right through to the end, overshadowed as they were by the Lancs.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Werribee, Melbourne
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    Default

    Tony, my apologies - you were absolutely correct in picking that it wasn't a Lancaster as pointed out by the more eagle eyed chaps above.
    There were Lancs with radial engines but I didn't look beyond the engines when I replied above.

    There is a pretty big clue in the address of the Museum

    Address: Halifax Way, Elvington, York YO41 4AU, United Kingdom

    This Halifax is a bit if a 'bitsa' - interesting write-up here https://yorkshireairmuseum.org/exhib...e-halifax-iii/
    Ray

  12. #12
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    Sep 2012
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    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Default Mistaken Identity !

    Hi Guys,

    I've been back to my original post and corrected the information.
    After checking I can confirm that the aircraft is in fact a rebuilt Halifax Bomber.

    26-08-2019-005.jpg

    Barns Wallis.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  13. #13
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    Default surviving

    Apparently the Halifax crews had a higher survival rate compared to the Lancaster . The Halifax had easier ways to escape the aircraft , the escape hatches were easier to get at in an emergency. Some pilots preferred the later Mks of the Hali to the Lancaster because it was a slightly faster aircraft . A friend of mine in town here, his dad was a Stirling pilot in a Special ops squadron 299, Jim flew SOE agents over to Norway and towed gliders over to Market garden , Jim left school at 14 and did a apprentiship as a slaughterman at the local abbatoir. I have copies of Jims pics
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
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    Default

    Wellington was the one I was thinking about in my first post. Could not be more wrong. 4 engines, a different tale and nose. I think I just sore radials then had a brain fart.

    Never new Lanc`s had radials. Live and learn.

    Anyway good to see a museum still open.

    Tony

  15. #15
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    Default

    Hi Tony,

    Quote Originally Posted by bts View Post
    Wellington was the one I was thinking about in my first post. Could not be more wrong. 4 engines, a different tail and nose. I think I just sore radials then had a brain fart.

    Never knew Lanc`s had radials. Live and learn.

    Anyway good to see a museum still open.

    Tony
    Yes, it is ! They are having a hard time at the moment, with our "Boris" messing things about. They have only just re-opened the NAFI only to have to close it again. So they have set up an outside shop for pre-made food. The nice thing is that they have extended our annual pass to the end of November because of the local lock down. But at £9 each its hardly going to break the bank !

    I'll take some more pictures next time that we go there. They have an awful lot going on !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

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