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  1. #1
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    Default The Tool and die Guy 2 Moved from general MetalWork

    Hi from BC
    Phil Kerner has put up another post on Facebook continuing the same story. And yes I have contacted him and have permission to direct interested parties there. My last post has 642 views which makes me think the topic draws a lot of interest from people in industry. Like us here in Aus they suffer from BS advertising and labels.
    I'm not trying to politicise this forum but would like to see us all keep our jobs and our kids have good employment as well.
    Please don't send your old machines to scrap. Pass them on to someone starting up who could use the help. Have your cutting tools reground as much as possible. Don't throw anything of value away.
    In the news I saw the Qld gov will increase the Feds asked for 10% of state purchasing to a 30% requirement in Australian product. How did it ever get so low?
    Now a plug for Phil Kener. There is so much info on his site I suggest you pay him a visit. Still I don't think I will ever get to work to his accuracy.
    Regards
    BC

  2. #2
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    Default

    I really want to spruik my thoughts here, but I don’t want to get banned..
    Accept that the world has changed from whatever period you perceive as the good old days and be at peace with it, that era is not coming back.

  3. #3
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    Default My thread

    Hello Racing tadpole.
    By all means say what you will, I have thick skin and a thick head.
    I realise we will never get back to the good old days and don't expect that. However I will not be the last bloke to lie down and say , not my department.
    We all have enjoyed 50 good years and owe it to our kids to pass a bit on.
    Regards
    BC

  4. #4
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    Default

    COVID has shown our over-reliance on China. Getting a little more manufacturing back into Aus would provide a little security and much needed jobs.

    I agree, old machines are so much nicer than new stuff. Send your surplus my way!!! lol

  5. #5
    jatt's Avatar
    jatt is offline Always within 10 paces from nearest stubby holder
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    Default

    Ideally one would like think folk in Aus (end consumers) will help drive a reemergence in manufacturing. Of course there would also need to be a similar commitment from suppliers and "end manufacturers" - those who make goods comprising several components sourced from various firms. At the very least to increase the Aussie made percentage in the finished product.

    Of course there are items where we simply could never reasonably compete with goods made abroad. Even with automation.

    Pers feel that people have short memories. In a few years the price above all else mentality will put us back right were are now.

    Watched a good article a little while ago about an Aust brick manufacturer (cant remember which). The guy in charge points out in the distance to the warehouses and basically says, "no money in making bricks - the moneys over there." Not much more needs to be said on the matter.

    Me - well my day to day enterprise wont help me much in retirement.
    Its the other interests I have going on the side that will help me out more in this department.

    Been watching my peers steadily retiring out of the industry after figuring out no one is prepared to take on/buy them out.
    Frisky wife, happy life. ​Then I woke up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.
    From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    I really want to spruik my thoughts here, but I don’t want to get banned..
    Accept that the world has changed from whatever period you perceive as the good old days and be at peace with it, that era is not coming back.
    As much as it pains me, I have to agree that "the good old days" are unlikely to return in their entirety. What I would say though is that this current situation should be a major wake up call that we have gone the wrong way and need to turn back at least to some degree. Global trade is ultimately healthy and beneficial, but we cannot continue to throw the baby out with the bath water as we have done.
    To some degree, I can understand the attraction of cheap goods for the average consumer, but I cannot abide the lack of support for Australian manufacture by Government. When we have Military uniforms and medical equipment from the lowest bidder, no matter where they come from then that's a problem in my view. Ironically the trading partners that we purchase said items off would not buy their items from a foreign manufacturer.
    It would be marvelous if machines that were scrapped could be sold to other businesses or hobbyists, but that seems to have left our DNA as well.
    I cannot blame business for leaving our shores though. I am aware of the case of a manufacturer, a large manufacturer in fact that produced equipment for underground mining and employed 250 odd people. This manufacturer wanted to expand their factory on land that they owned and had owned for many years in fact, at the same time they were setting up a second factory in Thailand at the time. The factory in Thailand was set up and equipment was coming off the production line before the first Council approval was complete for the Australian expansion. If we want Australian business and manufacturing, we need to make it possible for them to operate.

  7. #7
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    I agree Karl, businesses wanting to expand are held up by too much red tape.
    We recently moved to a larger factory, because we wanted to take over the rest of the building, as they were planning a further extension.
    The owners had to have surveyors come and do their thing, as there is a low area for water flow, that required an environmental study, all this took approximately 12 months, this is all before it could go to council.
    China built a large hospital for the Virus in 10 or so days, here it would take several years.
    IRMC
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I haven't read all posts but here is something to consider.. In no way would i be able to afford to buy the machines I have if they had been, made in Australia! My hobby as it is has been one of mainly purchasing used machines tools or generously gifted. Budget has dictated purcbhasing choice. This is no different for those in business!

    No different to millions who choose to travel OS for holidays for the same reason its cheaper $$$$ than traveling at the same level of quality of accommodation etc here. I hear so often people state of attractions, food, accommodation in Australia that they can do it cheaper OS. No they cant! OS doesn't have the natural attractions, choice, most importantly medical facilities or health care cover we have here. Many never consider the total cost of travel either. OR that they are keeping Australiams employed.

    Australia is one of few countries which gets 4 weeks annual leave!

    WE have pushed business to move offshore! WE all have grumbled about rising costs! WE all have demanded higher salaries/wages, trippled our contracts charges to Government depts!

    WE became a nation obsessed with sport, with leisure time, with socialising. WE handed our manufacturing to those who have the human work force to produce at a consumer affordable price!

    WE still have child labour apprenticeship!
    WE are more concerned about riots for an African American than for the deaths in custody of First Nation people here!

    Cancer kills more people in Australia than Covid will! Heart attack also!

    In China they must work!

  9. #9
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    Default

    Guys ,
    This discussion has been moved over here to Off Topic.OK?

    I agree this topic really is important .Important for AUSTRALIA.
    Normally I would put the damper on such discussion, but for now have your say, but at the same time show respect for other posters who have a different view to your own and keep it civil.

    If the discussion turns into a bun fight I will close it.For the time being lets leave the Victorian belt and road argument out, as I think that has potential to inflame a few.

    Unless something is made to happen,for you and me, just relying upon the government alone, to do take meaningful action won't happen until we the Australian public, put a burr under the Government saddle and make them, the Government ,make it happen as far as bringing critical industry back home.

    By Government I mean Governments at local, state and Commonwealth levels.

    Without getting critical infrastructure related to Australia's security, decoupled from China, we are a sitting duck for damaging action Chinese Government CCP wishes to take against us.

    Both political parties can only think in terms of an electoral cycle and whats good for them, not what is good for Australia the nation, in the long term.

    Sure projects still require some oversight and that oversight could well be expedited, but not like China.

    China is not a real outstanding example as we know to well what happens to some of buildings they construct. They fall down.
    The hospital, if you have seen it in videos, is prefab and has bars on the inside of the windows.It is not a stunning achievement if you consider the prefab buildings were already ready to go to somewhere else and were just re directed.

    My opinion is that China will in future, suffer huge problems from constructions of all sorts failing catastrophically because of their inherent corruption problems in short cutting quality.I am thinking on the scale of the Three Georges dam.I think it only a matter of time and circumstances.

    Yes we, as Australians will have to give up quiet a lot. It is either that or maybe start to learn Mandarin.

    Your local,state and federal Government representatives are a good place to start the process of reclaiming our Australia.

    Grahame

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    I haven't read all posts but here is something to consider.. In no way would i be able to afford to buy the machines I have if they had been, made in Australia! My hobby as it is has been one of mainly purchasing used machines tools or generously gifted. Budget has dictated purcbhasing choice. This is no different for those in business!

    No different to millions who choose to travel OS for holidays for the same reason its cheaper $$$$ than traveling at the same level of quality of accommodation etc here. I hear so often people state of attractions, food, accommodation in Australia that they can do it cheaper OS. No they cant! OS doesn't have the natural attractions, choice, most importantly medical facilities or health care cover we have here. Many never consider the total cost of travel either. OR that they are keeping Australiams employed.

    Australia is one of few countries which gets 4 weeks annual leave!

    WE have pushed business to move offshore! WE all have grumbled about rising costs! WE all have demanded higher salaries/wages, trippled our contracts charges to Government depts!

    WE became a nation obsessed with sport, with leisure time, with socialising. WE handed our manufacturing to those who have the human work force to produce at a consumer affordable price!

    WE still have child labour apprenticeship!
    WE are more concerned about riots for an African American than for the deaths in custody of First Nation people here!

    Cancer kills more people in Australia than Covid will! Heart attack also!

    In China they must work!
    Hi Ray, guys,

    I think that you have started to hit the nail on the head !

    We have the silly situation here where there are thousands out of work, complaining about their benefits and not having any money, yet there are farmers, food producers begging people, desperate for workers to get produce out of the fields, importing workers from Europe because the people in this country won't take those jobs or do that work. At the same time complaining that foreigners are stealing our jobs and wanting immigration reduced and controlled. One of the excuses for Brexit !

    The hospitality industry is the same, the vast majority of workers are foreigners ! They are prepared to do the work that people don't want to do and still sending money back home to their families.

    People are becoming lazy ! You hear about slavery, well it still exists !!!
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  11. #11
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    Default

    We have the same problem here. People are too reliant on the welfare system, they don't want to work, why should they, if they can get similar money or more on the dole, especially if they've several kids, with free education, medical etc.
    There is a shortage of skilled tradies, labourers get better money and don't have to think about what has to be done, they just wait for a boss to tell them what to do. I know several tradies that get better money working for a farmer, than they do applying their trade.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  12. #12
    jatt's Avatar
    jatt is offline Always within 10 paces from nearest stubby holder
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    Hmm. Yes lots of good points here.

    Yeah welfare, prob best not to go there. Even govt tells us its their biggest single spend.

    Pollies not thinking past the next election cycle - hardly a new concept. The ones with any good long term vision thats actually for the good of the country... hens teeth.

    Around here manufacturing is the biggest game in town - local council stats support it. Second healthcare, followed by tourism. Of course manufacturing doesn't get the same amount of press as tourism, not as cool for the media and govt to spruik about I guess.
    Frisky wife, happy life. ​Then I woke up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.
    From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".

  13. #13
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    Default

    While I agree that we suffer in the main from far too much regulation, and not infrequently from those in charge of administering the regulations abusing their powers because they can, and to massage their own egos, but we do need some regulation otherwise we will be in the same situation as people in mainly third world countries, where buildings fall down in minor earth tremors, factories and other occupied buildings burn down with thousands of fatalities because the fire exits were blocked or locked and nobody could escape the inferno.
    Some believe that the unions have killed manufacturing because of greedy wage demands, but I don't know anyone who wants to work for $4 a day for 12hours or more, totally inadequate health care, no sick pay etc, etc.
    Most would agree that we need police forces and defence forces, public education and a health service, roads and many other infrastructure systems, and that these should all be paid for from the public purse, ie our taxes. If we can't support these services from our own economy, then we can't be sure that they will be there for us when the chips are down. If we have no manufacturing base, then in an emergency, once the initial stocks are run down, we are at the mercy of overseas suppliers, and as we have just found, this can be very dangerous for our survival. Just imagine if a populous country to our north began attacking our northern approaches. Our armed forces would probably use 2 years worth of munitions in a month, if they lasted a month. Even if our service men and women out fought their opponents and we never lost a ship or an aircraft, my guess is that within a month they could become unusable because of a lack of spares for servicing. With next to no vehicle industry here, we wouldn't have the basic manufacturing base that could be turned to a war footing at short notice either.
    My own view is that we should be manufacturing a significant proportion of nearly everything that we need. I am unsure what that amount should be but perhaps between 50 and 70%, and the proportions would most likely vary somewhat as some industries would be considered important strategically, like metal industries, fuels, electronics and aerospace for example and others not so important like high fashion, adult toys and low quality consumer items.
    Most governments think that foreign investment is to be encouraged at pretty well any cost, but it is not always good for us. In my own home town, Caterpillar came in and bought out a very successful local boy making underground mining equipment, and almost immediately took the most successful machine manufacture overseas to Brazil, and a couple of years later everything else went to Thailand. Hundreds of good paying jobs were lost, as was the quality of the machines produced I have been told. This is not the first instance of this behaviour of foreign companies and it won't be the last, but why don't our governments take these companies to task, and tell them this sort of behaviour is not on. If the government had said to Caterpillar that unless they changed their plans of closure for their new acquisition, then the government would not buy, nor would they employ any Cat machine on any government project for the next 10 years, that might have got the attention of Head Office in Peoria, Illinois, and maybe things would have turned out different.
    I could go on and on, many might say that I already have, but there is a price to be paid for self sufficiency and that may mean that we pay more for cars, but keep them longer, ditto for clothes, and many other items too, but the unemployment lines may be much shorter, and we would have the capacity to defend our way of life should it become necessary.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ropetangler View Post
    not so important like high fashion, adult toys and low quality consumer items.
    Adult toys. That means woodturning lathes and 3D printers, right?

  15. #15
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    Default now short on stock

    Hello to all, BC back again.
    From what I encountered last week we could feel the pinch from our spat with China sooner rather than later.
    One of the main equipment suppliers ran out of inverter welders and some accessories are nill stock with my usual suppliers. A bit like supermarket shelves.
    Not being dummies, the importers are looking at eastern Europe and other sources. I do expect major stock outs in the next 2 weeks and thereafter supply delays of some weeks.
    Simple items like 400A twistlock electrode holders and long tig gloves. To add to the delivery time of 5-7 days from Melb to Brisbane the shortages make it hard to keep the shelves full.
    Lets see if there will be a supply bias toward the larger outlets as there has been in the past.
    And a warning. Don't let your debtors string you out.
    regards
    BC

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